Anchor chain longevity

Neeves

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A member here complained when his anchor chain needed to be regalvanised after 4 years. I recall, maybe incorrectly, he did not follow this route, re-galvanising, as his chain was a G70 and he feared that re-galvanising would reduce its strength. The short life of the chain was a bone of contention and the manufacture enjoyed a bit of stick. The member also suggested smaller chain would suffer a shorter gal life, my tests in which I compared 6mm, 8mm 10mm and 12mm - finds this is absolutely rubbish. The main criteria is galvanising thickness and the quality of the galvanising (and Vyv has a neat test to evaluate galvanising quality ( a link twist test). With thickness of galvanising - you are on your own (I use a coating thickness meter - the sort that might be used for engineering paint work thickness, or by galvanisers). Most engineering products, steel beams or reinforcing rode is galvanised to a 70 micron coating thickness (includes the raw zinc). This is also the specification used for galvanisers for chain (as there are no other specifications). Engineering units suffer no abrasion and if you have your chain regalvanised its would be worth identifying if the processor could offer you a thicker coating (as it will last longer - up to a point).

I've conducted some chain abrasion tests simply hanging short lengths of chains on a a beam of galvanised rod under our cat, beam to beam, so that the chains are abraded by the silica sand seabed and measuring weight loss resulting from the movement of our cat, wind and tide, on a swing mooring. I had a number of investigations - how long did the gal last, which gal was better and did chain size impact wear

I was amazed and appalled that I could remove all the gal off chain in 4 weeks. My test was thus accelerated - as obviously anchor chains last much longer than 4 weeks of continued usage.

Another member here documented the usage of his yacht and the life of his galvanising and I took the data he provided - and the answer came out the same - 4 years life.

I only mention any of this as there is a thread on CF and 2 members there are talking of 3-4 years life. Having anyone make a stab at galvanising life is not common - and I do watch out for comment.

Italian Maggi vs Chinese-made Lofrans chain - Page 2 - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

Check post 27.

Now 4 people reporting on galvanising life is hardly statistically sound - but its a better data point than nothing

For most people 3 - 4 years life, or, say 1,200 nights at anchor, is longer than they will own the yacht - but for liveaboards it might be an interesting data point - to schedule into your maintenance regime.

Of G70 chain - regalvanising - go for it - I've tested it - there is no loss of strength if you regalvanise conventionally coated, Hot Dipped Galvanising , G70 chain. Don't take my word for it, America's biggest chain maker told me the same thing. Just tell the galvaniser its a G70 chain and grit blast rather than pickle. Instead of grit blasting - drag the chain behind your car across a dry beach, or along a quiet road (and end for end it). But get it to the galvaniser the same day - raw steel rusts overnight (and will not take the gal).

If you use your chain as a live aboard you might not notice the gal has gone, though if you look you will see it. But your chain will wear more quickly than the galvanising (as the galvanising is harder than the chain) - so if you leave re-galvansing you are eating into your chain. Regalvanise sooner rather than later.

Jonathan
 
Jonathan,

Worthy of note for weekend warriors is this - chain on my recently acquired boat is sixteen years in the chain locker. Occasional use commensurate with weekending sailors. By far the majority of chain is in fine condition but the last 20m which has lain in the bottom of the locker in about 3mm of salt water is completely shot - rusty as hell and staining everything with rust debris. So, save your chain from this fate - make a little timber platform at the base of the locker which lifts the chain out of the salt water puddle. Thus a happy chain with extended longevity.
 
Robih,

A common story. Anchor lockers seem the work of the devil - specially designed to ensure the drain holes block and reduce chain life. Keeping rope in the bottom of the locker is another way to ensure your chain corrodes.

Here in Oz I suggest to people, who care, to try and source this sort of thing

GRP Moulded Gratings | Flooring & Anti-Slip Surfaces | High Quality

It comes in big panels so you really want an offcuts. But it is robust and will allow the chain to drain (and keep the rope separate to the chain). I also suggest that when you wash your deck down with fresh water - swill out the anchor locker as well (and in your climate, leave the locker hatch open when it is raining - reduce the salt.

Instead of Fibre glass grating a chopped up milk crater or bread tray (that they use to deliver loaves of bread) might suffice.

I confess I was not thinking of anchor lockers when I started the thread

Know how: Ground Tackle

Jonathan
 
Robin,

A common story. Anchor lockers seem the work of the devil - specially designed to ensure the drain holes block and reduce chain life. Keeping rope in the bottom of the locker is another way to ensure your chain corrodes.

Here in Oz I suggest to people, who care, to try and source this sort of thing

GRP Moulded Gratings | Flooring & Anti-Slip Surfaces | High Quality

It comes in big panels so you really want an offcuts. But it is robust and will allow the chain to drain (and keep the rope separate to the chain). I also suggest that when you wash your deck down with fresh water - swill out the anchor locker as well (and in your climate, leave the locker hatch open when it is raining - reduce the salt.

Instead of Fibre glass grating a chopped up milk crater or bread tray (that they use to deliver loaves of bread) might suffice.

Jonathan
Those GRP moulded gratings are excellent underfoot - we have them in the marina here and offer real protection from Scottish ice. However they're as abrasive as hell, kneeling on it is rather like sticking one's knee against an industrial belt sander! I confess that when loading my new shiny G70 MF DAMS chain I lifted it from the grating and didn't drag for fear of removing the galv!
 
Those GRP moulded gratings are excellent underfoot - we have them in the marina here and offer real protection from Scottish ice. However they're as abrasive as hell, kneeling on it is rather like sticking one's knee against an industrial belt sander! I confess that when loading my new shiny G70 MF DAMS chain I lifted it from the grating and didn't drag for fear of removing the galv!

Not an issue I'd thought of. You could take a sander to the abrasive, which is (I assume mould into the top surfaces). I think they have 2 top surfaces, one has a 5cm aperture and its 1cm on the other side (or roughly those measurements). Its common here, as with you - pontoons in marinas and for decking in National Parks. We actually use rubber door mats as a base or floor to our chain locker - but our locker base is flat, slightly sloping aft.

I don't want to be a killjoy, or no more than usual, but the shiny coating on the chain is just raw zinc - and zinc is soft and wears away quite quickly. The gal that does all the work is 'under' the raw zinc and are a number of layers of pretty hard Fe/Zn alloys metalurgically bonded to the base steel. Once you use the chain the zinc will all wear off and then you will be down to the abrasion resisting alloys. I suspect your shiny layers were actually quite thin as most people galvanising chain either have shakers or spinners that 'removes' as much zinc as possible (its not much use to you and worth money to the galvaniser).

As you use G70 chain - the hardness of the gal alloys is much harder than conventional G30 chain but only a little bit harder than G70. So if it takes 4 years to wear 70 microns of gal - it will take much the same time to wear 70 microns of your underlying G70 - the raw, G70, chain is quite abrasion resistant - but it will corrode (rust) as fast as G30 (there is a direct relationship between tensile strength and hardness).

Jonathan
 
Not an issue I'd thought of. You could take a sander to the abrasive, which is (I assume mould into the top surfaces). I think they have 2 top surfaces, one has a 5cm aperture and its 1cm on the other side (or roughly those measurements). Its common here, as with you - pontoons in marinas and for decking in National Parks. We actually use rubber door mats as a base or floor to our chain locker - but our locker base is flat, slightly sloping aft.

I don't want to be a killjoy, or no more than usual, but the shiny coating on the chain is just raw zinc - and zinc is soft and wears away quite quickly. The gal that does all the work is 'under' the raw zinc and are a number of layers of pretty hard Fe/Zn alloys metalurgically bonded to the base steel. Once you use the chain the zinc will all wear off and then you will be down to the abrasion resisting alloys. I suspect your shiny layers were actually quite thin as most people galvanising chain either have shakers or spinners that 'removes' as much zinc as possible (its not much use to you and worth money to the galvaniser).

As you use G70 chain - the hardness of the gal alloys is much harder than conventional G30 chain but only a little bit harder than G70. So if it takes 4 years to wear 70 microns of gal - it will take much the same time to wear 70 microns of your underlying G70 - the raw, G70, chain is quite abrasion resistant - but it will corrode (rust) as fast as G30 (there is a direct relationship between tensile strength and hardness).

A correspondent has pointed out he too uses a rubber door mat in the base of his locker, like this:

American Floor Mats

made from recycled tyres.

Ours is less eco friendly but does the same job, allows the chain to drain and the mat construction allows water to flow underneath. You really need a roughly flat base for there mat to sit on - but fibre glass grating offer the possibility of your making a false base.

I always feel the drain holes in anchor/chain lockers are too small - too easy to block.

Jonathan
 
Not an issue I'd thought of. You could take a sander to the abrasive, which is (I assume mould into the top surfaces). I think they have 2 top surfaces, one has a 5cm aperture and its 1cm on the other side (or roughly those measurements). Its common here, as with you - pontoons in marinas and for decking in National Parks. We actually use rubber door mats as a base or floor to our chain locker - but our locker base is flat, slightly sloping aft.

I don't want to be a killjoy, or no more than usual, but the shiny coating on the chain is just raw zinc - and zinc is soft and wears away quite quickly. The gal that does all the work is 'under' the raw zinc and are a number of layers of pretty hard Fe/Zn alloys metalurgically bonded to the base steel. Once you use the chain the zinc will all wear off and then you will be down to the abrasion resisting alloys. I suspect your shiny layers were actually quite thin as most people galvanising chain either have shakers or spinners that 'removes' as much zinc as possible (its not much use to you and worth money to the galvaniser).

As you use G70 chain - the hardness of the gal alloys is much harder than conventional G30 chain but only a little bit harder than G70. So if it takes 4 years to wear 70 microns of gal - it will take much the same time to wear 70 microns of your underlying G70 - the raw, G70, chain is quite abrasion resistant - but it will corrode (rust) as fast as G30 (there is a direct relationship between tensile strength and hardness).

Jonathan
I rather thought that the effect would be temporary:

IMG-20210407-WA0004.jpg


anchor.jpg
 
I rather thought that the effect would be temporary:

IMG-20210407-WA0004.jpg


anchor.jpg

That's the 'small 'side to the grating - the other side has a much bigger 'mesh.'

That chain (and anchor) really looks gorgeous.

It is a criminal shame to get it wet and dirty. :)

Jonathan

A bit of drift

What size is the chain, what size of shackle did you use that fitted and what is the spec of the shackle. Getting a shackle that fits and is of the right size and strength is a taxing proposition - so I wonder how you answered it. From the picture is looks like a CL shackle from Jimmy Green (to which I was introduced a few days ago by another YBW member (and unknown here in Oz).

J
 
That's the 'small 'side to the grating - the other side has a much bigger 'mesh.'

That chain (and anchor) really looks gorgeous.

It is a criminal shame to get it wet and dirty. :)

Jonathan

A bit of drift

What size is the chain, what size of shackle did you use that fitted and what is the spec of the shackle. Getting a shackle that fits and is of the right size and strength is a taxing proposition - so I wonder how you answered it. From the picture is looks like a CL shackle from Jimmy Green (to which I was introduced a few days ago by another YBW member (and unknown here in Oz).

J

Ah, you've made the connection, the "another YBW member" and me are one and the very same - so you have details.

Each link of the chain costs 37p. Only an accountant would work that out. ; )
 
Ah, you've made the connection, the "another YBW member" and me are one and the very same - so you have details.

Each link of the chain costs 37p. Only an accountant would work that out. ; )

I had made the connection :)

There is nothing wrong with accountants.

I thought other members might be interested 'from the horses mouth'. :)

I have thought, off and on, that using road marking paint might be a good way or good product to paint marks on a chain. It seems designed for longevity and abrasion resistance. It only comes in a.limted range of colours and maybe in 20l drums. I don't recall that the reflective qualities are part of the paint but are 'scattered' onto the paint when is is till setting off (but that would mean the glass beads would wear off quickly - so maybe its in the paint).

Your chain costs a King's ransom! it needs to last at least 4 years. It makes my G80 chain very cheap!

Jonathan
 
Its a bit of thread drift but Robih's new rode is 8mm G70 from Jimmy Green but made by MF Dam. Currently he has a stainless Bruce anchor but is considering a replacement and his focus was on an Excel. However there is a distance constraint and I raised the query would the shank of the Excel be too long, considering the Bruce only just fits. The other issue was how would anchor be joined to chain as it is difficult to source shackles that will match the strength of the chain if the shackle is locked up at 90 degrees.. Maggi used to supply an enlarged link, an Omega link, from the lifting industry that were galvanised (I always assumed by Maggi). These enlarged links are no longer available. Jimmy Green did source a shackle from Chaineries Limousines that matches the chain for strength in a straight line pull. It is this chain, shackle and anchor in the pictures that Robih has posted.

I have not discussed with Robih what chain he is replacing, I assume a 10mm G30 (but conceivably could be 12mm) - in which case he will need a reasonable snubber to replace the 'loss' of catenary with the elasticity of nylon. This means he will need to be able to attach snubber to chain and there is another constraint - the bow roller is below deck level - and a difficult reach to attach and detach a hook.

Robih is still in the decision making phase, new anchor, snubber and shackle are still not set in concrete (though he has bought the chain and CL shackle).

I have made the point that there is something wrong when manufacturers sell a component, in this case chain, and the owner has to scratch around to find essential components (in this case shackles, snubbers and hooks). I actually have galvanised Omega links that will fit the chain - but might not be a feasible option given the distance constraint between anchor shank end and a roller in part of the bow roller assembly.

Maybe when Robih finalises and tries out his new arranegent he will start a thread, in case someone else is wrestling with the same, or similar issues.

Sorry for the drift

The thread was about chain life.

Jonathan
 
A couple of points about galvanizing to comment on.
The alloys layers of typical galvanizing represent a small proportion of the total thickness of galvanizing (often about 5 microns out of 80), so not so relevant in thinking of corrosion protection, but it can be relevant in abrasion terms, being harder than the zinc layer. But even then, all the zinc (lest say 75 microns) has to be gone before the alloy layer's abrasion resistance is brought into effect. Tests show that the alloy layer's hardness does not vary much with the grade of steel galvanized (contrary to something mentioned above).
The ratio of zinc to Fe/Zn alloy thicknesses depends on a number of factors, including temperature of the molten zinc, immersion time, and %Si, %P in the steel. The latter is normally the most influential. It is possible to get a full alloy coating in hot dip galvanizing if these conditions are "right". Its also possible to get such a coating by sherardizing, a process that only forms alloy.

The life expectancy of galvanizing depends far more on the environment (handling, storage, washing, etc) than on anything else.

It is generally not possible for a typical galvanizer to process without acid immersion, and shot blasting alone is rarely effective in preparing steel for galvanizing. Most galvanizers, knowing the ineffectiveness of that would decline to process like that. Immersion of G70 chain in dilute HCl very rarely introduces hydrogen embrittlement, the often quoted reason for not galvanizing some grades of steel. The occasions when it doe, are mostly attributed to log immersion time in acid - for example in a galv plant not working weekend, that immerses on Friday for galvanizing on Monday.

The chain on my boat (8mm G40) has been galvanized at least 4 times in its approx 40 year life. (I don't know the history accurately, it might have been 5x) Despite frequent anchoring, its the bitter end that corrodes earliest, being stored in the chain locker most, damp, salty, corrosive.
 
The bitter end experience is exactly the same as mine. Some significant wastage of metal at the bitter end.
 
I flush my anchor locker with fresh water before the off season. I reckon it should reduce the corrosion process. I don’t know how much difference it would make though and have never seen any substantiated advice on this.
 
I flush my anchor locker with fresh water before the off season. I reckon it should reduce the corrosion process. I don’t know how much difference it would make though and have never seen any substantiated advice on this.
I take the washed chain out and stick it in the shed for the winter, nice and dry.
 
I replaced my dangerously worn mooring pennant with a bit of spare anchor chain while I made a new twin pennant from polysteel. Bad weather and other priorities meant that it was several weeks before I could return and I was a bit shocked to see how much of the galvanising had gone from the part in the water. It looked as though the closer the galvanised chain was to the black iron riser and shackles, the worse the corrosion was. I'm guessing that's because the galvanising was trying be an anode for the whole riser.
 
Its a bit of thread drift but Robih's new rode is 8mm G70 from Jimmy Green but made by MF Dam. Currently he has a stainless Bruce anchor but is considering a replacement and his focus was on an Excel. However there is a distance constraint and I raised the query would the shank of the Excel be too long, considering the Bruce only just fits. The other issue was how would anchor be joined to chain as it is difficult to source shackles that will match the strength of the chain if the shackle is locked up at 90 degrees.. Maggi used to supply an enlarged link, an Omega link, from the lifting industry that were galvanised (I always assumed by Maggi). These enlarged links are no longer available. Jimmy Green did source a shackle from Chaineries Limousines that matches the chain for strength in a straight line pull. It is this chain, shackle and anchor in the pictures that Robih has posted.

I have not discussed with Robih what chain he is replacing, I assume a 10mm G30 (but conceivably could be 12mm) - in which case he will need a reasonable snubber to replace the 'loss' of catenary with the elasticity of nylon. This means he will need to be able to attach snubber to chain and there is another constraint - the bow roller is below deck level - and a difficult reach to attach and detach a hook.

Robih is still in the decision making phase, new anchor, snubber and shackle are still not set in concrete (though he has bought the chain and CL shackle).

I have made the point that there is something wrong when manufacturers sell a component, in this case chain, and the owner has to scratch around to find essential components (in this case shackles, snubbers and hooks). I actually have galvanised Omega links that will fit the chain - but might not be a feasible option given the distance constraint between anchor shank end and a roller in part of the bow roller assembly.

Maybe when Robih finalises and tries out his new arranegent he will start a thread, in case someone else is wrestling with the same, or similar issues.

Sorry for the drift

The thread was about chain life.

Jonathan
Jonathan,

Yes I certainly will post the final solution if that is of interest.

The chain that is being replaced was 3/8ths (9.2mm) as far as I can make out. It's odd that a Swedish boat manufacturer uses Imperial sized chain but it seems that was the case. Grade unknown.

The most frustrating thing about the anchor choice process is getting decent information from the suppliers as to the size and shape of their products. How hard would it be to post a CAD drawing of each anchor product on to their website so that we could produce a cardboard model to test fitment? Rocna do this for the original and the Vulcan (very helpful) but Spade (there is a version mocked up by a UK supplier but not a proper Spade CAD drawing) and Excel (Anchor Right) do not. So we're supposed to order blind, have the anchor shipped at considerable expense and then ship it back if it doesn't fit. What nonsense! These firms expect us to stump up the think end of a grand to buy a product that we're guessing about, these guys need to get in to the 21st century, it makes me cross! We've tried to contact Anchor Right to get a template but have been completely ignored. It's put me off buying their product, they clearly have no intention of supporting their UK customers.

As to the length of Excel vs Bruce (its actually a Lewmar Claw) shank and fitment in the distance between roller and gypsy - the 22kg Excel model will just fit, it's slightly shorter in the shank than the 25kg Spade. That's why Excel is the preferred solution but, for reasons posted above, it doesn't seem to be an option. The Epsilon has a short shank but I've no desire to be on the bleeding edge.... The Vulcan would also fit but there's so little real world performance review information that I'm reluctant to tread that path.

Who would think buying an anchor could be so hard...
 
I am also in the decision process for new anchor and chain for a boat I am buying and just found this thread whilst searching for information on Chaineries Limousines G70 chain . I am fairly set on G70 chain but unsure from what source (I am in the UK however picking the boat up from France). Robih can I ask what made you go for the JG MF DAM G70 and not the Chaineries Limousines G70 chain?
 
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