Anchor chain: ISO or DIN?

Koeketiene

Koeketiene

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Getting rid of the pile of rust sitting in the anchor locker in the near future.

What's the difference between DIN766 and ISO anchor chain?

Wondering as we're also about to replace the manual windlass with an electric one and DIN/ISO seems to affect
the choice of windlass gipsy.

What chain to go for?
 
Thanks to noelex for the recommendation. DIN and ISO chain has the same dimensions except for 10 mm. The tolerance of ISO is rather greater but in general the two are pretty much interchangeable. Makes sense to match the chain spec to the gypsy. All the sizes and other info are on the website.
 
noelex said:
Have a look at Viv's excellent website:

http://coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pages/Chaindefinitions.aspx

Both ISO and DIN 766 chain are popular. They are different sized links for some sizes of chain. It is important that the chain matches the gypsy. If the chain is compatible either is OK.
Click to expand...

Many thanks for the link. The info I was looking for.

vyv_cox said:
Thanks to noelex for the recommendation. DIN and ISO chain has the same dimensions except for 10 mm. The tolerance of ISO is rather greater but in general the two are pretty much interchangeable. Makes sense to match the chain spec to the gypsy. All the sizes and other info are on the website.
Click to expand...

10mm is what I am looking at.
Given that fact that both chain and windlass cost exactly the same, what would you advise me to go for (ISO or DIN)?
 
OR4751 said:
10mm is what I am looking at.
Given that fact that both chain and windlass cost exactly the same, what would you advise me to go for (ISO or DIN)?
Click to expand...

I don't think there is much to choose between them. As long as your gypsy matches the chain everything is good.

I have Din 766 10 mm chain.

My impression is ISO 10mm chain is slightly more popular which is a bonus in terms of cost and delivery time. However, both configurations are readily available and perhaps the shorter links in Din chain stack a bit more easily?

Viv is the chain expert and may be able to comment, but my feeling is the differences are very minor as long as the gypsy matches the chain.
 
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I'd look at the supplier rather than DIN or ISO. As Vyv mention G30 is commonly but not always almost as strong as G40, which negates the need for G40. G30 chain failure is very rare. There are also no significant reports of G40 failure but usage is lower. Sadly the best documented chain failure I found was for G40, but that is not statistically relevant. I'd be very very cautious at downsizing size by buying G40 instead of G30. I'd be looking for a test certificate for the length of chain, or batch, you want to buy. I'd wonder if the test certificate was not available for the batch. The certificate should give the Proof Test load, break strength and extension at break (this latter should be over 15% - the higher the better. Given that you find chain that is strong enough I'd then look at galvanising thickness, as thickness largely determines how long it (the galvanising and hence chain) will last. Practical Sailor has an article on galvanising of chain and how to easily measure it in their January issue. The Practical Sailor article concludes that the best chain, price, galvanising, strength, is from America (having looked at American, Maggi , Oz and Chinese supply) and G30. There is an earlier PS article on chain strength. Peerless, one of the biggest traditional manufacturers have just introduced a metric range of chain but only in G40 and G70 quality (not G30). American chain tends to show less, actually no, flaking of the gal than Chinese (or Italian) chain.

Noelex might have said, if you look at his chain size vs vessel size, that he is using G70 chain and I believed downsized from 12mm to 10mm.

Jonathan

edit

OR4751, PM me with an email address if you have difficulty with accessing the PS articles. The electronic Jan issue also has a nice Blog as intro to the Fortress Chesapeake tests to be published for their Feb issue.

close edit
 
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J Neeves said:
I'd look at the supplier rather than DIN or ISO. As Vyv mention G30 is commonly but not always almost as strong as G40, which negates the need for G40. G30 chain failure is very rare. There are also no significant reports of G40 failure but usage is lower. Sadly the best documented chain failure I found was for G40, but that is not statistically relevant. I'd be very very cautious at downsizing size by buying G40 instead of G30. I'd be looking for a test certificate for the length of chain, or batch, you want to buy. I'd wonder if the test certificate was not available for the batch. The certificate should give the Proof Test load, break strength and extension at break (this latter should be over 15% - the higher the better. Given that you find chain that is strong enough I'd then look at galvanising thickness, as thickness largely determines how long it (the galvanising and hence chain) will last. Practical Sailor has an article on galvanising of chain and how to easily measure it in their January issue. The Practical Sailor article concludes that the best chain, price, galvanising, strength, is from America (having looked at American, Maggi , Oz and Chinese supply) and G30. There is an earlier PS article on chain strength. Peerless, one of the biggest traditional manufacturers have just introduced a metric range of chain but only in G40 and G70 quality (not G30). American chain tends to show less, actually no, flaking of the gal than Chinese (or Italian) chain.
Click to expand...

Think I will opt for the 10mm ISO.
Test certificate here: https://www.jimmygreen.co.uk/p/tech...anchor-chain-sample-test-certificate-10mm-iso

Haven't yet checked the availability of US manufactured chain in the UK.
However, a UK supplier is essential. 60m of 10mm won't be cheap, but if purchased in the UK I can recover the VAT (20% discount - not to be sniffed at).
 
OR4751

That's a decent certificate just get one for the batch you buy. I might still check on the galvanising. Differences in quality of gal can be a factor of 2 and 2 times as much gal means the gal will last much longer, though maybe not 2 times as long. Gal can vary within a manufacturer and from batch to batch. Peerless chain is in stock in Germany, contact Peerless direct and they will tell you how/where to buy - depends on your location, I'd guess. I'd also guess they are keen to make some sales progress as the range was only introduced a couple of months back - maybe they will be really price competitive. Again if you have difficulty at Peerless send me a PM and I'll dig out a contact for you.

edit, sorry but I'm not sure where you are - but Peerless metric chain is made in America and they might be shipping the same metric chain to places other than Germany, Asia for example - again the obvious route is to contact Peerless direct (and if you are not UK based, which is what you imply) then maybe contact Maggi direct (I can provide direct contact for them as well) and you may get a more interesting deal that way (though I'm not suggesting cutting JG out but if you are in Spain seems daft to buy in the UK!).

close edit

Jonathan
 
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Unfortunately there is littlechain made in the UK, but rather than using Jimmy Green as supplier I'd suggest Bradney's, Griff or one of the other UK chainmakers. They'll provide you with bona fide certificates which, I'd rather suspect, would be more difficult for Jimmy Green to access.
Wm Hackett, in Cradeley Heath are still making chain.
Here's a list http://www.yell.com/s/chain+suppliers-cradley+heath.html

I bought, in 2001 50m of Bradney chain, which was UK made, it's guaranteed G40, has good thick galvanising on it which, despite about 1500 anchorings, still show no sign of rust. The 7mm chain bought the year before, in Spain, has had about 150 immersions and is showing signs of wear.
Incidentally, unless you can prove the chain has been used IN YOUR BUSINESS I would be very wary of reclaiming the VAT on it. Customs and Excise have few limits on their powers and if you've ever been "turned over" by them you'd be unlikely to invite their inspection.
 
William Hackett now own Bradney Chain. Both import smaller sizes, including 10 mm, from China. They carry out a certain amount of batch QA testing and may possibly carry out proof testing if asked but it will cost. Jimmy Green import from Maggi in Italy, certificated and with proof testing I believe, plus it is possible to buy direct from Maggi. I don't know about Griff as they have declined to send me samples for testing, which makes me suspicious.

I would also contact Rigmasters in Southampton. They import from China (where perhaps the best chain currently made comes from), batch test, proof test and supply some of the big names in the yachting world.

As others say, I don't think it makes any difference which standard you buy to, within the constraints of the 10 mm tripwire, so long as it fits the gypsy.
 
vyv_cox said:
As others say, I don't think it makes any difference which standard you buy to, within the constraints of the 10 mm tripwire, so long as it fits the gypsy.
Click to expand...

Although I think that 10mm DIN or 10mm ISO have different levels of availability in different countries. I needed to extend my chain in Croatia and found the 10mm I have is the less common variation. Before going with 10mm, I would speak to some chandlers in the area you sail and see which is the common variant.

From memory, I recall that the 30mm link length is common in Croatia and I have the 28mm gypsy.

Richard
 
Kellys eye,

Sorry I do not understand the last post - what do you mean by 'test chain'. All reputable chain makers now Proof Test during production. Any chain maker meeting American standards, which are hardly onerous, will test to break every batch. Consequently in terms of quality, or quality control, as long as you buy from someone offering a test certificate I'm not quite sure why one would need to buy 'smaller sized test chain' - particularly if you buy ISO or Din it is made to a specific size (why buy something smaller that falls outside Din or ISO spec).

But I'm an ignorant Scots Australian and would welcome an improvement in my education.

Jonathan
 
vyv_cox said:
I suspect you may be confusing USA Imperial descriptions with European. 'Test' is a word used to describe some USA grades, e.g. http://www.tsperfection.com/mooring.html but not that I know of in relation to DIN or ISO.
Click to expand...

I did wonder if that was what KellysEye alluded to but imperial links are bigger than metric links, so a 5/16th inch link is bigger than a 8mm link and a 3/8th inch link bigger than a 10mm link - and KE talks about slightly smaller - so some clarification would be useful. Making it even more confusing High Test or G43 links are a different size to G30 links (which are a different size to BBB links, that imperial G30 is replacing!). Makes you think yourself lucky that the rest of us have simple metric links. (except for 10mm).

Jonathan
 
J Neeves said:
I did wonder if that was what KellysEye alluded to but imperial links are bigger than metric links, so a 5/16th inch link is bigger than a 8mm link and a 3/8th inch link bigger than a 10mm link - and KE talks about slightly smaller - so some clarification would be useful. Making it even more confusing High Test or G43 links are a different size to G30 links (which are a different size to BBB links, that imperial G30 is replacing!). Makes you think yourself lucky that the rest of us have simple metric links. (except for 10mm).

Jonathan
Click to expand...

I seemed to have stirred up a regular hornets nest. Information overload. :o

Thanks for your input one and all.

FWIW: ordered a Lofrans Tigres (10mm - ISO gipsy) and 60m of galvanised chain from Jimmy Green.
They're doing a (IMO) great deal if you opt for February delivery.
 
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