Anchor Chain - how much? (etc)

[Pavalijo]

I answered that one on the PBO forum, where it has sunk without trace. Chinese chain is currently the best in the world, made at Jinjiang on German machinery built in the past few years and apparently operated by German technicians.

Following Vyv's advice on the PBO forum (sorry not able to reply earlier but some of us still have to work ) I contacted Bradney chain who apparently use this source, and asked them for a quote on grade 40 chain. Whilst grade 40 is advertised on their website they are only supplying grade 30 now (which Vyv tested and is apparently nearer to grade 40 strength). I am now wondering whether to go for that (I think their price of £3.73/m +VAT and £30 delivery charge is good from what I have seen) or for the grade 70 Italian chain that Jimmy green offers at around £1200 delivered for 80m. This latter thought based on what Paul Chandler used. Or maybe I will contact another source quoted by Vyv and try and source the grade 40. I have a day off tomorrow to do more ringing around.

However, back to the original point of this thread, many thanks for all the replies. I am going to order 80m on the principle that I can cut some off later but don't want to join more on. I am also much wiser to the chain/rode needs for the secondary and kedge anchors.

 

[Steve C Cronin]

+1

All chain, smallest section of highest strength to provide the required safe working load, is the way to go in my opinion. Has always worked for me.

I've always gone with weight. Try putting a heavy chain over your shoulder and wading through the mud with it! Large ships don't just rely on the holding power of the hook which often is not that great. With light chain, once the anchor gets tripped, it can never set again as it bounces over the seabed. "Ting...Ting...Ting!

 

[Salty John]

Whatever works for you. As I said, my way always worked for me.

 

[vyv_cox]

Vyv,

But how do you know you're buying the very best Chinese chain & which supplier (UK)?

Serious question.

Bradney and William Hackett buy from a reliable manufacturer and carry out their own acceptance tests. That's as good as you are going to get. But also, check the weld using the method on the website.

 

[rivonia]

I've always gone with weight. Try putting a heavy chain over your shoulder and wading through the mud with it! Large ships don't just rely on the holding power of the hook which often is not that great. With light chain, once the anchor gets tripped, it can never set again as it bounces over the seabed. "Ting...Ting...Ting!

Good point re the weight. This is applicable to SHIPS. However with a YACHT it is critical to have the correct ANCHOR. One that if pulled out WILL re-set. Hence the OP is using a ROCNA.

 

[vyv_cox]

In order to test a bonkers theory that the chain does all the work and the anchor does nothing, last season I dragged my 60 metres of 8 mm chain down the yard. My physique falls somewhere between Charles Atlas and the famous nine-stone weakling but at my age I am certainly past my best. Presumably under water it would be a little easier, thanks to displacement and maybe a little lubrication. No wonder that a boat will react to even the lightest wind, dragging the chain along with it.

 

[Steve C Cronin]

In order to test a bonkers theory that the chain does all the work and the anchor does nothing, last season I dragged my 60 metres of 8 mm chain down the yard. My physique falls somewhere between Charles Atlas and the famous nine-stone weakling but at my age I am certainly past my best. Presumably under water it would be a little easier, thanks to displacement and maybe a little lubrication. No wonder that a boat will react to even the lightest wind, dragging the chain along with it.

Whenever we anchor in a sheltered bay in Greece, we usually have to follow a "snail's trail" to pick up the anchor in the morning This shows that not the whole of the chain gets dragged across the seabed by wind shifts, especially HEAVY chain. In our case, the last few metres before the anchor, are usually still in the line in which they were set. With a lighter chain it would be much easier for the whole of it to be displaced, with the resultant increased risk of tripping due to a sideways pull.

Furthermore, with light chain, a boat prone to yawing around it's cable in a fresh or inconstant breeze stands a much greater chance of tripping due to sideways pull or due to snatches being more easily transmitted to the anchor, than with a heavy chain which will have greater inertia and friction, to prevent the former and a greater damping effect due to mass, to prevent the latter.

In MY view, this argument for lightweight, "high-tech" chain belongs in the same folder as minimised and laboratory designed, keel attachment methods.

 

[Steve C Cronin]

Good point re the weight. This is applicable to SHIPS. However with a YACHT it is critical to have the correct ANCHOR. One that if pulled out WILL re-set. Hence the OP is using a ROCNA.

Where exactly, do you put the threshold between SHIPS and YACHTS?

 

[dratsea]

All above is correct but once the end is getting a bit tired you will turn the chain round. If you normally put out 30m and have 50m same bit is still in water. So ideally you need twice the amount you put out plus 5-10m so you have that option of trimming off the end

Dratsea,

PS to Vyv, roughly what is the weight/m of 10mm chain? I ask because the local works will collect and re-galvanize chain at NZ$2.75 (say£1.50 or just less) a kilo. Have not looked a local prices for replacement but from thread above that might be good value.

 

[Marsupial]

All above is correct but once the end is getting a bit tired you will turn the chain round. If you normally put out 30m and have 50m same bit is still in water. So ideally you need twice the amount you put out plus 5-10m so you have that option of trimming off the end

Dratsea,

PS to Vyv, roughly what is the weight/m of 10mm chain? I ask because the local works will collect and re-galvanize chain at NZ$2.75 (say£1.50 or just less) a kilo. Have not looked a local prices for replacement but from thread above that might be good value.

Reckon on 2.3kg per MTR

We have 10mm chain and find we have a much calmer life than those on 8mm so the weight of the chain does seem to make a difference, the strongest winds we have anchored in were 55kts we have a delta and 70mtrs of 10mm with a further 40mtrs of warp, have never had all the chain out. But we do use a chain hook with a 6 - 10 MTR snubber made from three strand poly.

A question for the panel, you intend to moor stern too with a line ashore say 30mtrs, you drop in 20 mtrs but the depth where you moor is 5 mtrs, only 3 boatlenghts from where you dropped - are you safe?

 

[vyv_cox]

PS to Vyv, roughly what is the weight/m of 10mm chain? I ask because the local works will collect and re-galvanize chain at NZ$2.75 (say£1.50 or just less) a kilo. Have not looked a local prices for replacement but from thread above that might be good value.

Maggi quote 2.3 kg/m for either DIN or ISO 10 mm chain. I have found galvanising in UK at Wedge's specialist chain facility to be either a third or quarter the price of replacing the chain. Seems to depend on a number of economic factors.

I saw a sample of new Maggi chain a couple of weeks ago, on which the galvanising looked very good and generous. Not as much as on my regalvanised chains but the best I have seen on production chain.

 

[sailaboutvic]

We carry 80 mts of 10mm chain and a 20kg Rocna ( before this year it was a 16kg delta ) I choose to have 10mm rather then 8mm in my view the weight of the chain goes a long way to help but a chain with an useless anchor is as good as a poke in the eye , but the important part of anchoring which hundreds of yacht end and women seen to forget is no matter what anchor you have or chain you must dig the anchor in or your wasting you time no matter what chain or anchor you have , if people would just do that the rest of us would have a better night sleep when the wind picks up .

A question for the panel, you intend to moor stern too with a line ashore say 30mtrs, you drop in 20 mtrs but the depth where you moor is 5 mtrs, only 3 boatlenghts from where you dropped - are you safe?

We all ways try and drop as much as we can without causing a problem to others , three boat Length is the min I would every put out but as you said you just dropped in 20 mts and you now ashore with your lines on land if I could pull no my chain without pulling my anchor out I wouldn't worry too much , unless there was something big forecast .
One of The main reason I put out as much chain as I can is if for some reason the anchor dislodge it self there plenty of chain to pull up on and a good chance for the ancho to dig in again .

 

[Steve C Cronin]

Reckon on 2.3kg per MTR

We have 10mm chain and find we have a much calmer life than those on 8mm so the weight of the chain does seem to make a difference, the strongest winds we have anchored in were 55kts we have a delta and 70mtrs of 10mm with a further 40mtrs of warp, have never had all the chain out. But we do use a chain hook with a 6 - 10 MTR snubber made from three strand poly.

A question for the panel, you intend to moor stern too with a line ashore say 30mtrs, you drop in 20 mtrs but the depth where you moor is 5 mtrs, only 3 boatlenghts from where you dropped - are you safe?

You are then pulling up a slope, so the angle between the bottom and the chain is effectively, zero, just as if you had a very much longer length out, so, IMO, this is not a bad scenario.

 

[Marsupial]

You are then pulling up a slope, so the angle between the bottom and the chain is effectively, zero, just as if you had a very much longer length out, so, IMO, this is not a bad scenario.

That's my take on it as well, seems strange at first to have less than 30 mtrs of chain out in "20mtrs" and be firmly anchored! Plus as you say most of the chain is on the seabed.

 

[Sybarite]

We are fitting out the boat ready to cast off next year, business sale permitting! We will be moving from Scotland to East med over a few years, possibly taking 2 years to get to Gibraltar and then moving swiftly over to Greece/Turkey where we will be based. We will be on board from April-October only, leaving boat on the hard over winter. we will need to spend much more time at anchor than in marinas.

The next intended purchase is 8mm DIN766 grade 40 anchor chain, having discovered a badly corroded joining link almost half way along the existing 65m chain. Our boat (sail) is 38' long and 9 tonnes (plus cruising baggage). The windlass is a Lofrans 1000w.

My question to those of you who have done this is how much chain we should purchase for the primary anchor, a Rocna 25kg. I had in mind 80 to 90m and ensure we store only lightweight "stuff" under the forward berth (all tankage is on and aft of midships)?

Also I intend to acquire a 16kg Delta or Kobra and put around 35m chain plus anchorplait on that, and a Fortress FX23 with 10 (or 15?)m of chain plus anchorplait on that - what total lengths would you recommend for those - and any comments on the overall suite of anchors would be greatly appreciated? I am happy not to skimp on the anchor set up to achieve savings (fewer nights in marinas) later

Finally (and I am placing this query on the PBO forum also), any recommendations for the supply of good quality chain in the UK? I hear that far east chain is perhaps to be avoided.

Many thanks in advance and I apologise if some of these queries are old news, but I have searched!

Paul.

You may like to have a look at the Spade anchor. It consistently comes out top on anchor reviews. It's performance is broadly similar to the Rocna but it has the advantage of being more penetrative in kelp than a Rocna - if you ever cruise in an area subject to kelp. BTW this is second hand info from sites much more competent than me.

 

[Pavalijo]

You may like to have a look at the Spade anchor.

Thanks but too late - the Rocna is already on the bow roller! I did upsize to 25kg and hopefully the extra weight will aid penetration (OMG why did I say that??!!)

 

[affinite]

I have 40m + 40m of 10mm chain joined by a C link
I frequently saw the C link at the bow roller as 40m seems to be my standard scope (13m boat)
Only very rarely have I deployed more than 40m (last week required 50 in a blow in the Cyclades)
The C link appeared to be badly corroded and was giving me sleepless nights when I had 41m out so last week I replaced it with a Crosby.
FWIW - the old C link was actualy only surface corroded. When I cut it off the steel was bright.
Vyv - the 3/8" link went through my 10mm gypsy just fine

 

[Pavalijo]

The C link appeared to be badly corroded and was giving me sleepless nights when I had 41m out so last week I replaced it with a Crosby.
FWIW - the old C link was actualy only surface corroded. When I cut it off the steel was bright.

Please may I be excused a little thread drift addressed to Vyv? affinite's mention of the c-link was to demonstrate how much of the chain is used (a direct response to my original post, thankyou).

I acquired approx 65m of chain with the boat with a corroded c-link at 35m - and the reason for my query is that I was advised not to trust c-links in chains and so will replace the whole chain now, but wanted to know what length is appropriate for our future travel plans. Is that poor advice??

Irrespective of the response I will be acquiring new chain and using the existing chain (plus rode) for the other anchors mentioned in my original post.

 

[derk]

If anchoring in Turkey I would recommend carrying more than 50m and I think 80m is about correct. you may find yourself anchoring in water depth of 20M or more in some Turkish coves. Also I have seen many yachts come up short when anchoring stern-to in deep Greek harbours such as Symi. I know it is a personal choice but I don't like using warp on the bow anchor as when you really need it I know the chain will not part or chaffe. I always use an anchor snubber.

 

[affinite]

Please may I be excused a little thread drift addressed to Vyv? affinite's mention of the c-link was to demonstrate how much of the chain is used (a direct response to my original post, thankyou).

I acquired approx 65m of chain with the boat with a corroded c-link at 35m - and the reason for my query is that I was advised not to trust c-links in chains and so will replace the whole chain now, but wanted to know what length is appropriate for our future travel plans. Is that poor advice??

Irrespective of the response I will be acquiring new chain and using the existing chain (plus rode) for the other anchors mentioned in my original post.

I guess C links are the ubiquitous "weak link" and I dont think anyone would argue that you will not ultimately be better off with one continuous chain however I am personally quite happy with my chain with a good quality C link in it.

I have a 25kg Rocna on 80m of 10mm chain backed up with a 25Kg CQR, a fisherman for Turkish weed and a Fortress kedge (Never actually used it)