Anchor Balls & Anchor Lights

Re: Anchor Balls & Anchor Lights

and you are avoiding mine

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the fact you have no ball up leaves him open to say that he thought you were making way and hence he had right of way

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since when is the definition of making way been 'not showing an anchor ball'.

if you are drifting you are not making way, you have no anchor ball up (I hope) and a craft under sail would still have to 'avoid you' ........or are you suggesting that a drifting boat should show 'not under command'? Now that is a more interesting consideration.

Unfortunately I have lost my link to the online Colregs - anyone care to post another one here please?
 
Re: Anchor Balls & Anchor Lights

If in doubt assume they are numpties and keep clear.

Last years Cowes Fireworks (the first I've attended!) saw loads of ppl at anchor with all the wrong lights on. But my 10yr old cousins daughter loved seeing the "Fairies" at the top of the masts!

So far, in a recognised anchorage we don't usually bother with the Anchor ball, I assume if boat is in such a place they are, at anchor, dropping anchor or lifting anchor, in all cases I'll (try and) avoid a situation where colregs need to be applied. Should put the anchor ball up I suppose ....
I've used the anchor light at night, but it would be more appropriate to have one lower down so you can actually see the boat, rather than stuck 40' up in the air! But it does look pretty from a distance!
 
Re: Anchor Balls & Anchor Lights

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You keep on about making way.
If you are under wayyou have obligations under the rules.
underway and making way are different.


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I know, no dispute - you are totally missing my point.

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As another poster has said is a PITA arriving at a busy anchorage and trying to work out who is actually anchored - who is underway and who is underway and making way.


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I agree and so if you are anchored without a ball and someone thinks you are underway but they have right of way they may hit you .... that is all I am saying!!! i do not understand why you cannot see the simplicity of my point. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
Re: Anchor Balls & Anchor Lights

Duncan
[ QUOTE ]
since when is the definition of making way been 'not showing an anchor ball'.


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It has never been that - nore am I saying that.

All I am saying is that if anchored without an anchor ball you leave yourself open to some idiot making a mistake, thinking you are making way and hitting you ... its that simple. Thats all I have ever stated.
 
Re: Anchor Balls & Anchor Lights

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they have right of way they may hit you

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They do not "have right of way" ... they are stand on vessel, and at the time it is apparent the other vessel is not taking adequate measures to avoid a collision then the stand on vessel MUST give way.

IMO Any skipper in control (and not at anchor) of their vessel has no (reasonable) excuse in the event of a collision (unless the other vessel is intent on ramming them!).

Lack of Anchor ball may be "mittigating circumstances" giving partial blame to the anchored vessel, but the majority of the blame should be on the party that did the hitting.
 
Re: Anchor Balls & Anchor Lights

[ QUOTE ]
if you are drifting you are not making way, you have no anchor ball up (I hope) and a craft under sail would still have to 'avoid you' ........or are you suggesting that a drifting boat should show 'not under command'? Now that is a more interesting consideration

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Well in fact your drifting boat would not be under command and you should indicate that. There would be no difference between that and broken down engines - I bet few of us have all the ball for these situations! :-)

Failing a signal, the only way another could tell you are not making way but just underway is by observation and the observer could make a mistake, assume you are making way - think he has right of way and end up hitting you .... I am always back to the same simple point. .... can you see it now?
 
Re: Anchor Balls & Anchor Lights

[ QUOTE ]
if you are drifting you are not making way, you have no anchor ball up (I hope) and a craft under sail would still have to 'avoid you' ........or are you suggesting that a drifting boat should show 'not under command'? Now that is a more interesting consideration

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats right -I mentioned earlier in this thread that they still had a duty to avoid you but also made the point that it makes the issue still with you partly to blame because you failed to show the proper signal.

If you want a clear cut case - put the ball up - if you do not and a boat hits you the issue is partly your fault even if they were total idiots.

[ QUOTE ]
Lack of Anchor ball may be "mittigating circumstances" giving partial blame to the anchored vessel, but the majority of the blame should be on the party that did the hitting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would also agree with that and have not written anything different - The fact you are left with is back to my original point - failing to put a ball up would mean that the issue is not clear cut and you will end up taking some of the blame.

What some of you are doing on this thread is not appreciating that I am stating what another boat with an idiot in it could do and still leave you with some of the blame .... thats all. I have not stated anything else. I have not at anytime stated that there is no difference between underway and making way ..... I have simply stated how an idito could observe the situation.
 
Re: Anchor Balls & Anchor Lights

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They do not "have right of way"

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I did not state they had right of way I stated that they think they would have right of way. In every post I m clearly referring to what an person in another boat may assume. I have even called them idiots. Early I highlighted the point that they had a duty to avoid etc. I am just baffled why issue is being taken with such a straight forward point.
 
Re: Anchor Balls & Anchor Lights

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They do not "have right of way"

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I did not state they had right of way I stated that they think they would have right of way.

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You did ... thats why I quoted it ... any idiot out there thinking they do should have their boats impounded.

The straight forward fact is that a lot of sailors (both power & sail) do not "bother" with an anchor ball when in a recognised anchorage.

During the day, it is very easy to identify these boats - they're the one fishing with a large line/chain from the bow..... and not moving very fast.
You don't hit a boat drift fishing do you? So why should you hit a boat drift fishing with its gear caught on the bottom !! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
Re: Anchor Balls & Anchor Lights

"You did ... thats why I quoted it"


NO - this is what i wrote:-

"assume you are making way - think he has right of way and end up hitting you "

I was clearly talking about someone thinking he has the right of way.

"The straight forward fact is that a lot of sailors (both power & sail) do not "bother" with an anchor ball when in a recognised anchorage."

That is an undisputed fact! Noone is saying other than that. But it is also a fact that should there be a collision it is highly likey that they would be attributed some of the blame.

"During the day, it is very easy to identify these boats - they're the one fishing with a large line/chain from the bow..... and not moving very fast.
You don't hit a boat drift fishing do you? So why should you hit a boat drift fishing with its gear caught on the bottom !! "

I am not saying that I have trouble - you continue not to read what I am writing, so let me spell it out.

1. There are some idiots out there on the water - fact.

2. Some have collided with anchored boats - fact.

3. If they collided with the anchored boat that was not displaying the proper signal then this may meand and further, probably would mean that some blame would be attributed to the anchored boat ...... fact.

4. If I state what other may do it does not mean that I do it - fact.

Which fact do you disagree with? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
Re: Anchor Balls & Anchor Lights

[ QUOTE ]
During the day, it is very easy to identify these boats - they're the one fishing with a large line/chain from the bow..... and not moving very fast.
You don't hit a boat drift fishing do you? So why should you hit a boat drift fishing with its gear caught on the bottom !! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Surely the points been answered - you'd have to be an idiot to hit an anchored boat in daylight but idiots are out there.

In the case of hitting somebody in the middle of a crowded anchorage the victim would have a very good case for saying that it was obvious they were stationary in the middle of a group of anchored boats so could reasonably be assumed to be anchored.

However a lone boat in a channel where boats didn't often anchor could be vulnerable to the accusation that the hitting boat thought that the anchored boat was making way and was the give-way boat, especially if there was a lot of obscuring traffic until the last few moments. The lack of anchor ball caused a few seconds hesitation in judgement so the anchored boat was partly to blame. The hitter is still an idiot but a judge might not rule that they were the only ones at fault.

But do I put up an anchor ball during the day - no - but I do always have an anchor light on during the night.
 
Re: Anchor Balls & Anchor Lights

My appologies - another case of RTFP ... on my part! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Lets just mark the solent as an anchorage and that the display of anchor balls are not required within these waters - removes 95% of all the problem! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Or ... why not just turn it into 1 big marina.... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif oh it is /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
Re: Anchor Balls & Anchor Lights

Aaaahhhh ... but even in an anchorage balls need to be displayed!!!

Now if you simply say the within the Solent Colregs should not apply then thats OK because it to some extent is already the case today!!! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Re: Anchor Balls & Anchor Lights

to reduce your % of responsibility if you are involved in a collision whilst at anchor, you must comply with all the regs, including light and all appropriate sound signals as laid down in the colregs ......
so a boat at anchor is not able to simply shut up shop. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
Re: Anchor Balls & Anchor Lights

Objection
1.
I must defend Rupert - what he said was that "he thought" ..... so he was again referring to what another thought, a mistaken thought but never the less not what Ruper thought ..... if you get my drift.

2. He could not be 'at it too' because I was not at it to begin with so there was no other to be at it with if you see what I mean.

/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
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