chris-s
Well-Known Member
I had thought about doing that or using a wichard countersunk shackle, with blue loctite or even the red stuff tho that would mean cutting the shackle off in the future.
Anchor attachment
- Thread starter chris-s
- Start date
I had thought about doing that or using a wichard countersunk shackle, with blue loctite or even the red stuff tho that would mean cutting the shackle off in the future.
mattonthesea
Well-Known Member
I find it hard to go into reverse when tacking off anchor 
Although both of us are fairly fit we would find it hard to jam the anchor at all!
Oh you sybarites; where's the fun without to and doubt and stress?
(Just to make clear, we do have an engine and we do use it. But only a manual windlass)
Although both of us are fairly fit we would find it hard to jam the anchor at all!
Oh you sybarites; where's the fun without to and doubt and stress?
(Just to make clear, we do have an engine and we do use it. But only a manual windlass)
vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
That's what I use. Blue Loctite is plenty good enough but if you were determined to use Red you only need to heat it to soften.
coopec
N/A
Don't expect a response from Jonathan as he is on shore leave for 3 weeks at Wilson's Promontory! 
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
Flush shackle connects anchor to three links of chain and then a Kong swivel.
Firstly I’m very happy for all those who claim they don’t need a swivel. However our anchor frequently comes up the wrong way round and the Kong swivel is very helpful.
Secondly to whoever it was that said no swivel is proof tested, my understanding is that Kong swivels are rated and they’re stronger than the chain. Definitely NOT a weak link.
Why all all the virtue signalling over not having a swivel from so many people?
Firstly I’m very happy for all those who claim they don’t need a swivel. However our anchor frequently comes up the wrong way round and the Kong swivel is very helpful.
Secondly to whoever it was that said no swivel is proof tested, my understanding is that Kong swivels are rated and they’re stronger than the chain. Definitely NOT a weak link.
Why all all the virtue signalling over not having a swivel from so many people?
thinwater
Well-Known Member
Not virtue signalling. A warning. The last time I changed a chain the SS swivel had a crack on the inside, hidden by the chain. Not something I saw on the internet and not confidence inspiring.
And I never missed it. In fact, after learning to recover properly, without twist, it was easier than having a swivel IME. Just not useful, like lots of stuff they sell in chandleries by implying that everyone has this or that you need it.
---
a. If the chain is alingned between the gypsy and the anchor, the twists will come out as it lifts and there will be no twist. If there is, twist the chain with a screwdriver through the links while lowering, and then rehoist.
b. Anchors alighn in a characteristic dirrection with the flow of the water. Most will come up backwards if you make the mistake of motoring forward while you hoist. I've seen this many times and laugh. If you are stationary or drifting back they will come up right-way. Easy.
vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
a. Yours might but ours definitely does not. A few years ago following a thread very similar to this one, we went a season with no swivel. It was an unsuccessful experiment that we both regretted. Our foredeck is narrow with a very raked stem and pulpit. The distance between roller and windlass is small. Turning the anchor without a swivel proved very difficult for Jill, who always does foredeck duty, and we were both delighted when we reverted to a swivel.
b. Easy enough if you can find the space and can be bothered. She is on the foredeck anyway so it is a second's job to rotate the anchor on the swivel.
Boathook
Well-Known Member
Just didn't work for me.
zoidberg
Well-Known Member
plenty more options, lets have a few more
Well, there's this idea....
....using a hefty s/s cable, encouraged by the maker of the XYZ anchor.
By chance I happen to have half-a-dozen short s/s cables similar to that shown. May try the idea unless someone dissuades me.
NormanS
Well-Known Member
Where have you seen this "virtue signalling"?
Some fit swivels and like them. Some don't see the advantage, so don't fit them. I see no need to castigate those who don't agree with one's point of view.
noelex
Well-Known Member
Countersunk shackles can be a good choice. It is nice to have a streamlined shackle that cannot catch on anything. This is what I am trying to achieve by cutting off the head of the pin.
Using Loctite is fine, just make sure the surfaces are clean. The joint can still be undone, with or without heat depending on the grade used. In fact with galvanised shackles the pin can sometimes be undone more easily, or perhaps I should say more reliably if you use Loctite as it also inhibits corrosion on the screw threads. Personally, if possible I still slightly prefer mousing as you can visually check the security of the pin, but many would disagree.
There is also the option of peening the end of the thread, or using a combination of techniques.
The main trouble is it is hard to find good countersunk high strength shackles. Wichard stainless shackles were once very popular for anchor/chain connection particularly their HR range of high strength shackles, but I am not sure if they produced a countersunk HR version.
Ordinary strength shackles are often used, even no name unbranded and untested without any published SWL. Few of these break, but I prefer to use a shackle that is not the weakest link even when subject to side loading and this means selecting the shackle carefully.
LadyInBed
Well-Known Member
With or without a swivel Jill still has to turn the anchor when necessary.
Have you tried using a banana? Which will turn the anchor for her.
noelex
Well-Known Member
The XYZ anchor. Great name and a very innovative and quirky anchor. It has almost no shank.
They used a stainless steel trace to help the performance of the anchor. Stainless steel wire offers less resistance than chain for the same strength so the anchor can dive more easily.
The same can be done for any anchor and it does help performance. There are some drawbacks. It is not as easy as chain to obtain a reliable long term connection, especially when it will spend much of its time in a low oxygen environment. It also introduces some extra connections in a location where they can snag parts of the anchor and create an unfair pull. Finally the wire will not work on the windlass gypsy and few boats have the room for a shank and a wire trace. This was not an issue for the XYZ due to the very short shank.
I don’t think it will help with twist. One problem is stainless wire like this can unwind if subject to high amounts of torque so a swivel may be required at some point in the system.. But give it a try and report the differences. There are some experimental results on the web, but I have never seen any reports from long term users with conventional anchors.
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vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
Not with a grooved roller. I have a Boomerang, don't know about a banana
thinwater
Well-Known Member
You do not turn the anchor. You turn the chain, which is accecible well back on the deck, just forward of the gypsy. But if you try backing while raising, you won't have to do even that. In fact, try it with the swivel.
thinwater
Well-Known Member
Well, there's this idea....
....using a hefty s/s cable, encouraged by the maker of the XYZ anchor.
By chance I happen to have half-a-dozen short s/s cables similar to that shown. May try the idea unless someone dissuades me.
Danforth and Northill pushed the same idea for a while. WW II seaplane anchors used cable for the entire rode. I do not know about sailor experiences.
I have used Dyneema with a chafe cover for a kedge. Much handier than lugging out chain. I used this combination nearly 100 times and never a sctratch, bearing in mind that a kedge or secondary anchor does not see yawing/sawing.
boomerangben
Well-Known Member
The problem with long lengths of wire is they rotate when under load, unless you’ve got specific non rotating wire. I remember watching a large (we were laying 5” chain and wire moorings) swivel bounce as it spun on a steel deck generating sparks as the load was taken on launch/recovery winch wire. If I remember correctly the chain was relatively short (about 50m at one end and 35m at the other) and the wire segment in the middle was a mile long. The mooring wire was non rotating but the poor old winch wire wasn’t.
thinwater
Well-Known Member
As long as there is no swivel, the cable is fixed against rotation at both ends and will not twist. No problem. This is why 3-strand works as anchor rode (and never use a swivel with rope rode!!).
vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
Sorry, that is nonsense.
boomerangben
Well-Known Member
I see what you’re saying and I have got carried away with a scale that’s not relevant in this context. Of course if the rope is fixed at both ends there is no rotation - that goes without saying. But there is a torsional force applied to the end fittings by the tension in the rope. But as you point out, it’s insignificant in yachts. I have a 3 stand nylon rode and would never consider a swivel