An up date on Fancy a Maurice Griffiths?

[old_salt]

Hi all.
We are busy building a yard and launch trolley for the MG. to remove the need for craning. We can then just winch her up ramps on to the back of the lorry.
We found two front axles and wheels from two ex Manchester airport electric concourse vehicles.
It will be steerable both ends so they should do the job nicely.
We do however have a problem that will help the transport situation.
We will need to remove the rudder it will reduce the overall length on the Lorry by nearly 3 ft lessening the overhang and let us hang the tail maker.
Can any one confirm the rudder top pintel will remove easily I expect it to be a screwed rod thought the transom with a nut and washer on the inside. The rudder would then lift off after knocking out the tiller.
The reason for the question is boat in oxford me in Manchester.
A long round trip just to find this out.
Yep I know we should have checked it.
I would be grateful if any one can help with this.

 

[tillergirl]

Well that's the way Seacraft did my pintels

 

[old_salt]

Thank you tillergirl.
When we where last down at the boat to remove her ballast which amounted to some 650kgs and lose bits.
I really should have done a through inspection of her be unfortunately time and day light did not permit it we still have not found a name or builders plate.
She has the build and lines of a Cockler class as "Tranona" pointed out the centre plate being aft of the mast is a help to determine her identity.
I expect that to be some where in the aft end of the cockpit your advise on that one would be welcome too.
My assessment of the rudder removal is:-
I see it as the rudder is held by two upper pintles and a socket in the heel of the keel.
There is a rod running thought the two pintles that is fixed to the rudder with a collar and split pin below the lower pintle remove the pin and collar knock out the tiller then unscrew the nut on the top pintle and the rudder should then be able to lift up and come away leaving the lower pintle in place and bringing the top one with it.
I would be interested to hear if you agree with this.
We have a lot to learn about her so I am grateful for any info the will help us.

 

[banger]

David, I am local to the boat and could nip over and have a look, p.m. me if I can help. Peter

 

[tillergirl]

Hope these help. I have two pintels and a heel fitting. Large pin on rudder fitting sits in the hole in the heel fitting which is the 'weakest' part of the set up as grit in the silt acts like grinding paste and wears the pin. However it lasts for 10 years so its not a disaster and is easy to get built up.

In the first two photos you will see the pintels. These were bronze, on the end of a 5/8 rod through the transom with a thread and nut on the end. Undo the nut and tap gently and the whole assembly is easily withdrawn from the outside. To locate the rudder there is a stainless bar with a thread on either end with nut. The top nut is retained as the end of the thread is neatly peined over. The rod drops down through the top transom pintel, then through the top rudder pintel and then down the the mid transom and rudder pintel. As you can just see from the last photo, the bottom nut is underneath the mid pintel (I suppose its the bottom pintel really since the next thing down is the heel fitting). The nut is tight on the thread not the pintel. To remove I undo and remove the bottom nut, tap up the rod and withdraw it from the top. It is handy of course that everything is retained until the rod is finally removed and most of the weight is on the heel fitting. Unless you have wear on the heel fitting, you will need to ensure you lift up the rudder in line with the angle of its fitting so that the rudder doesn't flop down and act as a level to pull against the heel fitting. My rudder is a deeply serious bit of wood. One person can lift it - just!

Hope this helps. Never thought that photo in the water would be of use. I took it to remonstrate with Blakes to show the inadequacies of their Titan A/F after a whole four weeks afloat! But you can't see the weed that well. Anyway they said it was my fault - as was the lack of gloss on their enamel. Mind you you should see their new matt deckpaint. That has a wonderful gloss! I'm drifting......

 

[old_salt]

Hi tillergirl.
What a lovely paint job truly a credit to you.
The bar seems to be fixed to the rudder so it is good hear the top pintle will come away and after the tiller is removed "the Horse is in the way" the rudder can then be removed.
Banger has very kindly offered to go and have a look at her more closely for us I will PM him as he requested.
Many Thanks David.

 

[tillergirl]

I actually threw an immense 'paddy' over the paint job. What you see is the second go at the enamel - the first having gone on like pebble dash. This was a different make and with that magic potion added - Owatrol. Still didn't quite get the gloss I was after. But contrary to to some pro-glass propaganda it doesn't take that long to do: what it takes is several years of 'not that long to do'.

Note: in view of global warming it is prudent to lay out an anchor when ashore these days!

 

[Searush]

Thanks for that, & good luck to the 2 Daves with the latest project.

 

[old_salt]

Hi Steve.
Thanks. Watch this space. Whether we will ever get her to look like "Tiller Girl" is another matter.

 

[tillergirl]

'course you will

 

[FullCircle0]

Having started the original post, I am really pleased to such a fantastic rate of progress on this MG.. There should be a reg number carved somewhere which would tell us a bit more about her...let me know and I'll look it up.

Regarding the trolley, there was an article in PBO May 2005, to build a big yard type trailer for a Pintail (similar size and weight) using two front axles from a 7.5 ton Ford Cargo. It ended up with two steering axles and, although not road legal, seemed a good way to move 5 or 6 tons around with relative ease. If you like I could post you a photocopy if you PM me.

The rudder pintle on my Pintail is almost exactly the same as Tillergirl's, although the bottom of the long pin is secured with a split pin rather than a nut.

I am left with one thought...How big is your truck? I guess it must have a beavertail.

 

[old_salt]

Yes we have seen the article and have a similar one for for my own boat. This photo was taken 1998.

We are progressing a new trolley for the MG and have to work out the angles for the steel work for the back of the truck.
It may need to have the back end beavered but I hope not as it involves considerable extra work. Then a change of use and MOT all with the cooperation of VOSA. Who when approached are willing to give helpful advise.
Just a few dry days in the next two week will help.

 

[FullCircle0]

That looks brilliant.

It's a bit different to the one in PBO in that the other had kind of outriggers for the bilge keels.


Just as an exercise I am posting this picture to see if I can actually do it!!

Hopefully that worked.

I have long thought I would like to build something similar in order to bring Full Circle home for the winter. This one was built just to drag the boat around the corner with a tractor to the guy's house. Rather like you, I would like the ability to load from the water without a crane and then find a way of getting her onto a truck and offload again without assistance.

At just over 5 tons I can't really afford to get this wrong!

How much work could you do with a boat overwintering at home instead of at a yard 50 miles away? By the way what axles did you use in your original design?

 

[old_salt]

She looks good.
Posting pictures is easy to check when you tick the revue box and then continue you can check it all works in the preview then revise or hit submit, I hope that helps.
To the new trolley there are a few differences with our MG she has smaller bilge keels but will still need to have supports.
The axles in the above pic are X 1950s military as far as I know.
They came with Mercia III which is behind the trolley, you can see the original girder she sat on, it's the reason for the larger one so she can be run in to the water and recovered.
The reason behind all this transport work is we worked out the cost of taking her to Liverpool and dropping her in for 3 weeks and then bring her back home worked out at just under 1.5k.
So after the first trip the rest are relatively just the running cost.
Then My pals MG came along and it has accelerated the need to get the truck up and working now.

 

[Tranona]

For the paint job, have you tried International Toplac? I changed to that when it came out about 8-10 years ago. Only fully recoated once, and my Eventide is dark blue with a white stripe above the rubbing strake. Also use the white on the spruce spreaders and that lasts 4 years. Difficult to comment on the shine on the white as there is not much surface area, but blue holds its shine and colour very well.