Americas Cup

Rob_Webb

Rob_Webb

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Apologies for the boaty post and the fact that this one simply does what it says on the tin.

But having though about it some more I simply do not understand why GB can't put together a viable AC campaign. Looking at the tiny size of NZ (population and GDP) it seems astonishing that a place as wealthy as the UK can't find the resources and desire to create a winning team on a scale that equals or exceeds what these kiwis managed to achieve.

Or is everyone in the UK just too knackered from commuting and arguing about who's got the biggest house/newest BMW/longest boat etc etc etc

Yes, I'm in an argumentative mood tonight so watch out.

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Re: There is no.

..will. The great unwashed don't care about sailing. Lets face it most sailors don't care about AC sailing. New Zealanders are weird. They still like all that sporty stuff, hands on. Most brits like to watch simple sports while sitting down and eating crisps. Sailing isn't a great spectator sport ergo no interest in UK.

As to sailing that normal folks might aspire to. How did NZ do at Athens?


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there's something rather stupid about spending a humungous amount of money building a boat which can not race (or the rules prohibit from doing so) in >25kn of wind .....

now, as for NZ ... well ... their record since the last century of inappropriate, misguided and, well, silly economics is not an example to follow .... !!

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Re: There is no.

But do you know what, this is the difference:

This evening I commuted back home from downtown Auckland to my home at Gulf Harbour on the fastcat ferry. It was a stunning afternoon and all us regulars sat up on the top deck with glasses of wine and strawberrys (provided by one of the reglars, it was her turn - get the idea?) chatting away and looking at the yachts around us. These were ordinary folks, some of whom sailed but most of which didn't. But there we all were, talking about the various boats around us with one nearly novice sailor giving 'lessons' to another slightly more novice sailor about what makes a boat move. And then a big, fast, sailing cat appeared and it gave the ferry a good run for its money and we all cheered when it put in a burst and overtook us. And 'ordinary' people were asking "is that a carbon fibre rig?"

The nearest analogy I can think of would be the same fastcat running from Cowes-Soton or Fishbourne-P'mouth ..... and do you honestly think that you'd get that same level of interest of enthusiams from the average punter?

The answer of course is no. But when you ask 'why' I'm at a loss.

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Your response sums up exactly what I am getting at.

Where the hell has everyone's 'joi de vive' gone?

I hope you all enjoy counting up your bank balances tonight and get loads of comfort from the safe and sensible decisions you make.

Warned you I was on fire tonight!

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we\'re not talking about...

the man in the street, the government or even 99.9% of yachties. what's needed to put together an Americas Cup challenge is a very small number of very rich men. there would be no shortage of capable crew if the boat and money were there.

no good moaning about Joe Brit sitting in front of the telly, get out and have a go at the guys on the rich list.

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what bank balance ... ??!! if one was as you describe, we'd never own a boat ...

did the AC not give New Zealand an international identity they would not otherwise have had and the opportunity of New Zealanders to talk about something other than erm sheep .. !!

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You've got a good point there, Rob; we're becomming a miserable load of bu***rs here, weighed down by our own petty cares and knotted with envy. I suspect that most people on the I.o.W. ferry don't even look at the boats and of those who do, the majority think "who did he cheat/screw to get that?" even if it's a 35 year old 4 tonner with patented colander hull!

It requires a particular sort of individual to spear-head an A.C. challenge - part visionary, part bull-shitter, part millionaire, part yachtsman (preferably) - but with the common touch. That rules out most "toffs" who know something about big boat racing and probably most athletes who sail dinghies, which the landlubbery can more easily identify with, ("activity centres", reservoirs &c.)

Perhaps what we need is an Olypian to team up with a toff and an entrepreneur.

All hail the Corinthian spirit, I say ! (God, I'd better get back to work . . . )

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<hr width=100% size=1>Khyber
 
Look, it's really not complicated and my observation is purely a numbers game. Population of UK is roughly 15xpopn. of NZ and therefore I can't understand why, with our maritime heritage, there aren't enough rich buggers interested in dipping into their offshore accounts and having a go. Whilst the kiwis are prepared to run a campaign sitting on the bones of their arses.

BTW, I'm still a Brit despite living in NZ. So this gives me the privileged position of being able to choose which side of the fence to jump depending on how I feel and the weather on a particular day!

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Personally I would love GB to mount a serious challenge.

We seem to have the talent in people like Iain Percy, Ben Ainslie etc but they get poached by other teams because we cannot organize a viable alternative.

I think what Peter Harrison has done so far with the GBR challenge is quite amazing but it shouldn't just be up to him to bank roll future challenges.

You would have thought that some of our mega rich entrpreneurs might like to chip in a few million for some high profile advertizing.

Don't you find it amazing that when a debt ridden football club nearly goes bust there is always a benefactor to save them ? You buy a foorball club for a £1 but you inherit £25,000,000 worth of debt.

What sailing needs is some mega rich types to back a serious bid that we as a nation could be proud of.

I think Ainslie and Percy are using this cup to gain experience and may be we will see the pair of them leading a creditable GBR challenge in the future.


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Person spec

Clive,

I have reviewed your posting, and the available candidates, and I believe that I have found someone possessing all your key attributes - part visionary, part bull-shitter, part millionaire, part yachtsman (preferably) - but with the common touch.

His name is Robert Maxwell, but unfortunately he can't swim very well. Also I believe he was blackballed by the Royal Thames membership committee, which would doubtless count against him. /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

Funnily enough, in spite of the Saints' current parlous state, I think that Rupert Lowe (Chairman of Southampton FC) possesses many of the qualities needed to head a challenge. As the choir at St Mary's stadium are singing some rather uncomplimentary songs about him at the moment, perhaps we should approach him with a proposal?

<hr width=100% size=1>Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho
 
.. hmm .. yes, it is a tad complicated. you will enter to win it. that might be the easy part because the following challenge will be in the uk and where, other than the solent, would you hold it?

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Off Weymouth? If it was good enough for the 1948 Olympics.............

Or p'raps Loch Melfort, with giant brassicas for rounding marks? (Sorry, but all this NB thread stuff has meant no mention of c**l*fl*w*rs for hours).


<hr width=100% size=1>Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho
 
Second thoughts

Actually, given the origins of the America's Cup, surely all we need to do is to add the contenders to the Round the Island Race and see who wins. My money's on Jeremy Rogers in Rosina of Beaulieu. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho
 
There's no capital in it. Buy a football club, and you're seen as being a man of the people, in touch with the man on the Clapham omnibus. Finance an AC campaign, and you're seen as a rich toff with too much money, who's wasting it on a ridiculous pastime.

As a result, the marketing return is limited - see the difficulty Harrison had in getting any sponsors for his last go - when he was definately going to do it. If people can't even see the benefits of piggy-backing off that effort, why should they invest serious money this time?

Also, for an individual to do it, the whole splashing the cash thing - and therefore showing you can afford it - is a bit infra dig. Not good for the quiet life. The one guy who might have bought into the whole self-promotion aspect - Richard Branson - has done his boat thing with the Atlantic crossings. Stelios can't do it, for example, (EasyAmerica's Cup?) because it's not seen a being "of the people".

Also there's the whole "not trying too hard" thing. In this country, you're rarely allowed to put together a team with the intention of winning. Everything (especially since the rise of the British Steel Challenge) has to be a "Challenge". Of course, there are exceptions to this - England at the last RWC, the Olympics. I think, though, that you could very easily find a lot of people who find the amount of money spent by the RYA on winning medals a complete waste - far better spent on schools and hospitals.

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But look, the same philosophy and prejudices are rampant here in NZ:

If you own a second holiday home by the sea (called a 'batch') then you are regarded as a good bloke living the kiwi dream.

But if you own a yacht (which likely cost quarter the price of the batch) you are a rich bastard/flash git.

So same story world over. But somehow the kiwis get over this prejudice and manage to get excited about sailing to the point that the whole nation gets behind the AC team.

I dunno, I give up. Too hard to fathom.

<hr width=100% size=1>http://gulfboy.blogspot.com/
 
It's got to be somewhere near an high density of population (preferably on the coast!), accessable and at least partly visible. The Solent would be the obvious choice for the Challenge, as jhr says, taking it back to its roots and would, I suppose, give The Squadron something to do. Other areas for consideration would perhaps be - Plymouth - Cardiff - around Belfast and or Stangford Lough - Liverpool to Fleetwood - Greenoch - Edinburgh - not sure whether Tyne/Wear/Tees would be suitable racing waters but open to peruasion - Kingston upon Hull/Grimsby - Felixstowe/Harwich - Thames Estury/Ramsgate/Dover probably too commercially busy - Brighton - or for my preference, Lyme Regis(/forums/images/icons/smile.gif). Always at least eight moorings available outside the harbour in summer and it would be yet another attraction for Lifeboat Week, though not perhaps quite as memorable as the Utterly Butterly Girls - Ahhh, happy days !

Perhaps Scuttlebutt should mount the challenge? What's wrong with a virtual A.C. ? Hell'uv a lot cheaper and we've done it quite successfully with most other aspects of yachting . . .
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Back to work again . . .

<hr width=100% size=1>Khyber
 
AmCup challenges are not put together by a country, or the man in the street, but by a very rich individual who can afford to drop £20-50 million. Although sponsorship pays some part it is unlikely to be a sufficiently enticing opportunity to attract anything like the cost in sponsorship deals.

Due to our tax regime people rich enough to afford to pay for the challenge can't afford to live in UK.

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Re: Second thoughts

ok youse two .. it's liverpool ... race instructions include the quaint advice to "properly secure appendages to the boats whether or not manufactured from lead" ....

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