America's Cup- Am I alone?

[RJJ]

Negotiations between the defender and the CoR.


That is always an issue with only 2 boats on the course to be honest. Even in the IACC boats, and the 12s, a good proportion of the races were decided in the prestart. Yes, there were some races for the ages, but a good proportion were 3 hour processions.

Not to the same extent. Yes in the early phases of the challenger series (remember when there were lots of syndicates?); but by the finals and the AC itself, there were few walkovers.

Even absent placechanges, they were often processions at close-quarters.

 

[Sailfree]

Sorry what does CoR stand for . Search button does not know!

 

[Mistroma]

Sorry what does CoR stand for . Search button does not know!

I'm assuming it is Challenger of Record. I haven't heard if the Royal Yacht Squadron were confirmed as the next CoR, must check.

 

[Laser310]

I'm assuming it is Challenger of Record. I haven't heard if the Royal Yacht Squadron were confirmed as the next CoR, must check.

It is confirmed here in the NZ Herald

America's Cup 2021: Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron confirm receipt of challenge for next regatta - NZ Herald

 

[Sailfree]

I'm assuming it is Challenger of Record. I haven't heard if the Royal Yacht Squadron were confirmed as the next CoR, must check.

How does that work please?

Are there a recognised series of clubs that can challenge or can any club including Sailfree Y C (still to be formed!) challenge.

 

[Kukri]

How does that work please?

Are there a recognised series of clubs that can challenge or can any club including Sailfree Y C (still to be formed!) challenge.

It’s actually in the Deed of Gift and it has been litigated.

A Yacht Club that holds its Annual Regatta on salt water connected to the oceans may issue a challenge for the Cup.

A brand new Yacht Club formed for the purpose of challenging for the Cup is not permitted because it doesn’t hold an annual regatta. Yes, this has been to Court, and not that long ago.

The first two Challenges were in the name of the Royal Thames YC and the Royal Harwich YC and Sir Thomas Lipton’s Challenges were in the name of the Royal Ulster YC (which has a notably fine Model Room).

More recent UK Challenges have usually been in the name of the RYS, which does of course hold an annual Regatta on salt water connected to the oceans, but the Royal Burnham had a crack in 1983.

Here’s the list:

List of yacht clubs that have competed for the America's Cup - Wikipedia

 

[Laser310]

How does that work please?

The cup competition is governed by the Deed of Gift. Disputes are resolved in the New York court system.

The deed basically states that a cup holder can not reject a legitimate challenge.., and it has been held that once there is a legitimate challenge in place, no other
challenges need to be accepted.

The terms of what constitutes an acceptable challenge are quite broad, and could easily, for example, specify boats that the cup holder does not wish to race in.
In an ongoing match, both the defender and the challenger usually have a challenge lined up that they will accept immediately if they win, so they retain control over the terms of the next match.

the challenger of record is that club that has made the currently valid and accepted challenge.

the CoR is responsible for organizing the regatta that determines which challenger goes on to compete in the actual americas cup races.

There is however no requirement that other challengers be given a chance.., it's just the way it's generally been done since the 70's

 

[Kukri]

There is sometimes confusion because Sir Thomas Lipton, being “in trade” * was not elected to the RYS until very late in his life, and when asked the name of the Club in whose name he was issuing a challenge, replied “My own Club!”. He meant the Royal Ulster, but a myth grew up that he had founded his own Club for the sole purpose of challenging for the Cup. He was really a very keen and dedicated racing yachtsman, and campaigned his regular boat, also called “Shamrock”, but a 23 metre, in the UK and Europe.

* “My uncle is going boating with his grocer again!” (attributed to Kaiser Wilhelm II, also a keen yachtsman).

 

[Rum_Pirate]

What type of yacht/boat/craft will used in the next America's Cup?

A refined AC-75 ?

It was interesting to see that the challenger Luna Rossa and the defender Team New Zealand both used North Sails.

Was the use of North Sails a pre-requisite?

 

[Laser310]

What type of yacht/boat/craft will used in the next America's Cup?

A refined AC-75 ?

It was interesting to see that the challenger Luna Rossa and the defender Team New Zealand both used North Sails.

Was the use of North Sails a pre-requisite?

NYYC used Quantum - because the family that owns Quantum was the biggest contributor to that syndicate

 

[LONG_KEELER]

Just wondering if INEOS will now be mothballed ?

Wouldn't it be great to see her at SIBS this year . Or better still under sail.

 

[bdh198]

List of yacht clubs that have competed for the America's Cup - Wikipedia

So, does that mean the last time a UK yacht club was the challenger in the America’s Cup (excluding being a competitor in the LV cup) was the Royal Thames YC 1964?

 

[Kukri]

So, does that mean the last time a UK yacht club was the challenger in the America’s Cup (excluding being a competitor in the LV cup) was the Royal Thames YC 1964?

Yes.

Which means that since 1964, when the RTYC challenger, Sovereign, was whitewashed 4-0, we have not been as good as the challenger.

As in other fields, perhaps, we are not as good as we thought we were.

 

[Kukri]

Just wondering if INEOS will now be mothballed ?

Wouldn't it be great to see her at SIBS this year . Or better still under sail.

Wouldn’t it be nice to have a SIBS this year!

 

[Sailfree]

Thanks guys interesting to know more about CoR. Admit i knew nothing about this before this thread

 

[Kukri]

It all arises because the Cup, which was won outright by the syndicate that owned the America, was given to the New York Yacht Club as a perpetual challenge trophy by the owners of the America. In fact the cup was given back twice, and given again twice, in order to change the original Deed of Gift, which was found to be unworkable, and then changed again, after all the original donors had died, by consent of the New York Supreme Court.

The Challenger of Record wasn’t needed when there was only one Challenger but as the Cup grew more popular a means of sorting out who has the right to challenge became necessary, so whoever challenges first after the Cup is won* works with the holder to sort out elimination races and find the best challenger.

* a matter of seconds, usually.

 

[TLouth7]

Does the CoR have to respect the outcome of the challenger series, or can they turn round at the end (in the event they don't win) and say "screw you I'm the Challenger of Record and I'm going to race the Defender"?

 

[flaming]

Does the CoR have to respect the outcome of the challenger series, or can they turn round at the end (in the event they don't win) and say "screw you I'm the Challenger of Record and I'm going to race the Defender"?

Short answer - no.

The CoR's role in terms of being "special" basically ends when the rules for the event are published. The only real reason it was still being talked about this time round was because of Auckland going into lockdown, and the suggestion that they change the rules to change the dates, which would have required CoR sign off.

 

[Kukri]

Short answer - no.

The CoR's role in terms of being "special" basically ends when the rules for the event are published. The only real reason it was still being talked about this time round was because of Auckland going into lockdown, and the suggestion that they change the rules to change the dates, which would have required CoR sign off.

Excellent answer! Thank you!

Bonus photograph of the actual schooner “America”:

 

[j80]

Not wishing j80 any personal ill, but I am delighted that the extremely exciting races of the past two days have proved him so wrong. Full marks to all those behind this edition of the Auld Mug for coming up with such a radical formula.

I wholeheartedly agree the last few races were great to watch - especially with the 2 finalists which were closer than expected in performance - so happy to be proved wrong - look forward to potential prospect of seeing these class of boats race in next AC