American trailerable sport fishers

Nick_H said:
Yeah, would be nice to do something a bit more adventurous with the cockpit colour scheme. I haven't ruled out a Yammie F300 myself, as they're actually pretty light, about 260 kilos, and the boat is rated for it. Scout have performance data with that engine, and it does 50 knots!
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I'm not sure would be very scientific because different boat but you're welcome to take the capelli plus yam 300 for a spin anytime you're in antibes. You would at least hear the sound and feel the grunticity. It's a nice machine

I've got some vid of verado 300 from Cannes. Will try to post soon

Etec confuses and worries me. Loads of people say " I have one and it's great" but loads of others say " I have one and it's a nightmare". Each person is no doubt right, but each commentator has a sample size of one or two. If you look at the Internet as a whole the number of " nightmare" posts is too much and feels statistically significant. Thus I'd be worried that the one I buy is one of the x% that are nightmares. As you'll see on the net the nightmares are engine rebuild jobs not trivialities. I'm definitely not saying the good ones aren't great engines

In contrast you can't find any significant number of verado or yammie nightmares

There is a YouTube vid where an etec and a yammie are tied stern to stern and the etec wins the tug of war. This proves what you already know which is that 2T has more torque and power at lower rpm than 4T but beyond that it is marketing BS of course
 
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waw what a boat,
congratulations for this very nice find,

and in one way or the other, you alway's seem to find nice things at a very good deal !
love it well done !

I wish you many happy times in the trailerboating world :-)

on another subject,
any progress on the replacement of your electronics on the P57 ?
 
jfm said:
Etec confuses and worries me. Loads of people say " I have one and it's great" but loads of others say " I have one and it's a nightmare". Each person is no doubt right, but each commentator has a sample size of one or two. If you look at the Internet as a whole the number of " nightmare" posts is too much and feels statistically significant. Thus I'd be worried that the one I buy is one of the x% that are nightmares. As you'll see on the net the nightmares are engine rebuild jobs not trivialities. I'm definitely not saying the good ones aren't great engines

In contrast you can't find any significant number of verado or yammie nightmares
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I agree with all that, there's a bit too much noise about ETEC problems. I do like the idea of the low down power though. The Scout is reputed to have a very efficient hull, which means less power needed at cruising speed, but of course it needs enough punch to get up on the plane easily with a few people on board. This seems to lend itself to an ETEC/Optimax.

There's a jump in outboard weight above 200 HP whether you look at 4 strokes or 2. The 4 strokes are 4 cylinder up to 200 hp, then 6 above, and Evinrude have both a big and small block 200 HP option. So, if I can get away with 200 HP, I can save weight on the outboard either way, but I may need the extra low down punch of the 2 stroke.

It's all guesswork until I get the weighbridge reading though. I have weights for all the kit that's fitted, but the big unknown is variation in the lay-up, could easily be +/- 100 kgs.
 
BartW said:
on another subject,
any progress on the replacement of your electronics on the P57 ?
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That's a long story!

If you remember, I decided to upgrade rather than have my existing Furuno unit fixed

I ordered 2 of the Raymarine E120 touch screens, but when they arrived I realised i'd made a mistake on the measurements. I returned them to the dealer (with apologies), but then had a two month battle to get a refund. The newer E125 will fit nicely, but are twice the cost. Either way i'd need a new radar scanner because everything is digital now, and really on a 57' boat i'd want an open array scanner, which is another big cost. I tried to work out how to wire it all in, and fit AIS at the same time, and my brain exploded. I'm now convinced it's not a DIY job to install new nav kit, at least not for me, so there's another big cost for installation (Garmin reckoned 2 men for a week, when I looked at their kit!)

So, my £5k upgrade quickly became a £15k upgrade, and to be honest i'm not that bothered about having new nav kit, so i've decided to have the Furuno screen repaired. It's only the trackerball that's stopped working, so probably needs a new laser, the type that's fitted in a computer mouse costing £10, so should only be £1,000 for the Furuno repair!
 
Nick_H said:
So, my £5k upgrade quickly became a £15k upgrade, and to be honest i'm not that bothered about having new nav kit, so i've decided to have the Furuno screen repaired. It's only the trackerball that's stopped working, so probably needs a new laser, the type that's fitted in a computer mouse costing £10, so should only be £1,000 for the Furuno repair!
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I'm sorry to hear you had this trouble with the nav kip upgrade,
I'll post another OT question in my own Furuno depth sensor thread
good luck with the repair !
 
jfm said:
The thing I would say, having been brought up on beautiful Merc 2-strokes, is that these 4 stroke outboards are a bit gutless. There is no power until say 4000rpm. That Yam 70 on my tender looks like it will make the whole rig fly, and it does if the boat is light and you get to 4000rpm, but not otherwise. Even that 300hp Yammie on the MRC/JFM Rib in Antibes, which looks a complete monster of an engine, isn't exactly quick pushing that RIB. So I'd urge you very strongly to get the most massive FO outboard(s) as you possible can on the back
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Well, I took your advice on engine size, though not on brand, and have today ordered a 300 HP ETEC, having almost convinced myself that a 200 would be fine. This will give a top speed of 50 knots, and i'm expecting blistering acceleration on a boat weighing not much more than a tonne. I've scoured the internet about ETEC problems, and i'm happy that they are few and far between, and there are so many other things I like about the Evinrude, especially the extra torque, lighter weight, 3 year service intervals, auto winterising, and 5 year warranty. I've ordered the drive by wire throttle, which I think will be a nice extra.

I didn't wait to weigh the boat in the end, because this is the lightest suitable option anyway, as it's basically the same block as the 200HO. There is a small block 200, which is lighter, but it's an uprated 150, and I just don't think it would have the punch i'm after.


Boat arrives from Greece next week, outboard fitted the following week, by which time the weather will have turned sub-tropical and I can take her out for a spin, yipee! :D
 
jimmy_the_builder said:
Great news - how's it getting here, in the end?
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Seller is towing it to Patras in Greece, and putting it on a ferry to Trieste in Italy. Driver from my work is then collecting in Trieste and towing it to Lymington. I realise that there's plenty of opportunity for something to go wrong with this plan! :ambivalence:
 
Nick_H said:
Well, I took your advice on engine size, though not on brand, and have today ordered a 300 HP ETEC, having almost convinced myself that a 200 would be fine. This will give a top speed of 50 knots, and i'm expecting blistering acceleration on a boat weighing not much more than a tonne. I've scoured the internet about ETEC problems, and i'm happy that they are few and far between, and there are so many other things I like about the Evinrude, especially the extra torque, lighter weight, 3 year service intervals, auto winterising, and 5 year warranty. I've ordered the drive by wire throttle, which I think will be a nice extra.

I didn't wait to weigh the boat in the end, because this is the lightest suitable option anyway, as it's basically the same block as the 200HO. There is a small block 200, which is lighter, but it's an uprated 150, and I just don't think it would have the punch i'm after.


Boat arrives from Greece next week, outboard fitted the following week, by which time the weather will have turned sub-tropical and I can take her out for a spin, yipee! :D
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Great stuff Nick. I get your logic on probability of any problem. Blimey it will be a rocket ship with 300 on a light boat. Good going - post pics when you can

The chain-letter delivery trip sounds quite a laugh!
 
Great choice. I'm sure you won't use all the power most of the time, but it'll be great fun to do, whenever you'll please.
Just curious re. wire throttles, since I've never seen those made by Evinrude: are they available also in dual lever configuration?
I'm saying this because if you will ever want to push her fast in some chop, 50 knots begins to be a speed at which you definitely want to be able to move the throttle double quick, without fearing to put the engine in reverse while jumping a wave.... :ambivalence:
And in this respect, dual levers are just the ticket.
 
rustybarge said:
As I understand the towing regs:

The trailer is plated for a max. weight, it is an offence to exceed this.
The tow car has an advisory recommended tow weight limit, you can legally exceed this in a private vehicle at your own risk, and it is not an offence to exceed it as long as you are not endangering other road users.
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Rusty, you need to be very careful saying things like this - it's utter claptrap and someone may read it and think you are right.

You can do anything "at your own risk" - doesn't make it legal or right, or safe.

Whether it's safe is open to debate, but certainly if your "rig" exceeds the gross train weight stipulated in the vehicles Type approval document (and usually stamped on a plate on the side of somewhere in the car (door jam, under bonnet etc) then you will instantly invalidate your insurance, your life insurance probably wouldn't pay out if you were killed - and you'd have to stump up all the costs of any accident howsoever caused if you weren't.

I was recently in an accident which was totally not my fault. However I was still breathalysed, the car was given a casual glance over by the attending officer to check it was all being used properly, and my own insurance wanted full details of where I was going, why and so on.

If there is ever the possibility of a claim, believe you me the insurers will look for a way out - and towing a 3 tonne trailer with a car rated to tow 2.5 is the perfect excuse.

Even WORSE is the new legislation coming in (it may even be here now) that your vehicle must be capable of towing the MAXIMUM weight that the trailer is capable of carrying NOT the weight in it at the time.... this is very important for a few reasons.

Let's say you want to move a bale of hay.

Your car is rated to tow 2.5 tonne so you borrow your mates 3500t trailer.

Even if you only put one bale of hay in the trailer, and it then weighed 751kg, you would TECHNICALLY be breaking the law. Now whilst this is unlikely to be invoked normally, if you took it to the extreme and had a small car (like an astra) and towed a big trailer (even only quarter full) you might think you are well inside the limit of the car - however you may still catch the eye of a new and over-keen traffic officer who might pull you over. Here's the rub, and the reason they've done it, he doesn't NEED to take you to a weighbridge - your car says it's got a Kerbweight of 1400kg and a Gross Train Weight of 3000kg (giving you a tow weight of 1600kg) and your trailer has a manufacturers plate saying it's rated to 3500kg and in the imortal words of Monty Python "You're f***ing nicked me beauty" - no arguments, no excuses......

In that situation, as I understand it, your insurance would NOT be invalidated (although once they pick up on this latest rubbish it will be I'm sure) but you have committed an offence.


Be warned - coppers are sensible, but if they see a rig they think is unsafe they WILL stop you - but an XC90 towing a sensible sized boat won't raise too many eyebrows.


If you want a decent to drive towcar (rated to 3500KG) - you could do a lot worse than look at an ML merc - the petrols are cheap as chips (£1500 for a decent lpg converted 430 v8 for example) they drive well as a car (if no sports car) and if you're doing next to no miles then you could even get a non-converted one as it will cost buttons to run.

I used to run an ML500 on LPG for this very purpose - it towed perfectly, cost £280 to tax, and £150 on a restricted miles insurance policy and did 15-20 to the gallon (equivalent of 30mpg given LPG is 65p per litre) but there are plenty of them out there with towbars already installed.

Having seen all that, of course the XC90 will be fine to tow what you've bought - I just wanted to correct the worrying statement made by rusty
 
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So here's the plate off the XC90:

IMG_0835_zpsedf92f2c.jpg


The min kerb weight of the car is about 2200kgs, so there must be an allowance of 570 kgs for optional extras, fluids, people, and luggage. The Gross Train Weight is 5,020 kg, so the difference between the two matches the maximum towing weight of 2,250 kgs. What i'm still not sure of is whether you can legally tow more than 2250 kgs, if you have less than 570 kg of extra weight in the car, although that's not an issue for me now.

edit: I suppose it may be relevant with regard to the new legislation you mention. The gross trailer weight is 2370 kgs, which is above the stated towing limit of the car, but i'd still be below the gross train weight as long as I don't have more than 400 kgs of weight in the car.
 
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ontheplane said:
Even WORSE is the new legislation coming in (it may even be here now) that your vehicle must be capable of towing the MAXIMUM weight that the trailer is capable of carrying NOT the weight in it at the time.... this is very important for a few reasons.
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That was what I understood was coming but I certainly don't buy your argument that it is important for a few reasons. It is just poor legislation that makes absolutely no sense.

However, I could buy the rationale that it is because the police are too lazy to measure the rig, but that is completely the wrong reason to make it law and a triumph of bureaucracy over common sense. Laws like this simply undermine respect for the law.
 
rafiki_ said:
Nick, your plate I saying you can tow a trailer up to a gross train weight of 5020 kg, car plus trailer. VOSA or plod will weigh the rig, and if you exceed, you will be prosecuted.
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So, to be clear, the trailer and boat can weigh more than 2250 kgs, if the laden car weighs less than 2770 kgs, and still be legal?
 
Well, the good news is that the delivery trip was uneventful, and the boat arrived yesterday, and is now sat in Berthon's yard courtesy of Moody Nick. Even the unnacompanied ferry from Greece to Italy worked perfectly. No damage, nothing missing, and the boat looks great.

The bad news is that i've been told by the transport company that the trailer is US spec, not EU. I have an e-mail from the seller (a dealer) confirming it's CE certified, and I contacted the boat manufacturer to check that the boat was built for the European market, but I didn't physically check the trailer at the time of the sea trial because I didn't know what to look for. It actually looks like a great trailer with an aluminium chassis and hydraulic disc brakes, but none the less it seems it's not legal here. Dimensionally it's OK, so as I understand it the remedy will be new hubs and brakes (wich may mean new wheels and axles), a new hitch, and a cheapo trailer board, so probably a few hundred pounds, which isn't the end of the world. Anyone know if this is right, or is it more involved? I may have some recourse to the selling dealer, although that won't be easy from a distance.
 
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