Alternativs to "Mast Hoops"?

[Simes]

I need to secure the Sail to the mast on a Gaff Schooner, the mast is some 10" in diameter. The mast is in place and so is the standing rigging.
Any good ideas on how to do this? Is it possible (or practicle) to bend hoops around a mast (I don't think so)?

Can the sail be laced on?
How about a series of ropes with parrel beads?
How about a tight "Luff line" and lace the sail to that.

I know that the situation is less than ideal but we have only just decided that a gaff foresail instead of a few staysails is the way to go.

Hope that you can help or at least advise.

thanks

Simes

 

[banger]

Had a similar problem with Curlew,I used parrel beads, four on each loop and individually knotted them to provide one each side of the mast and two at the front ,works a treat the sail now goes up and down like the proverbial.!

 

[Simes]

Parrels Eh?

I am thinking that this is probably the only way to go.

I had thought of using some very smooth braid on braid with a loop spliced in to each end then passed around the mast and siezed to the sail. but I think that this combined with some of Classic Marines Parrels would work, don't you?

Thanks for the input, it is nice to know that there is at least one way out.

Simes

 

[Woodlouse]

You can lace the sail on. The way it's done is instead of having a spiral of rope going down the mast you take the lacing line round the mast, through the sail then back round the mast the way it came so it forms a sort of zigzag.

Like so.

 

[DownWest]

Aquaintance used plastic water pipe (painted brown) lashed to the sails and bolted on a "scarf" joint. In your case look for some left overs from council work at 12" size.
I was wondering how to explain the lashing as Woodlouse has so well pictured. This works on my 4" mast. Bit different....
A

 

[Transcur]

Our mast 10" hoops we bought eight years ago have been breaking at the rate of one per year or so. Expensive to replace at that rate. Until I make some that are better we will keep using the parrel beads. I turned up some ash parrel balls around 2" diameter and have five laced on 6mm prestretched rope spaced with a simple overhand knot. Never jams and actually damages the mast less than the hoops.

 

[chart5011]

I go along with Woodlouse, the lacing works very well, simple and effective. Note that the diagram shows it is not just a spiral, and don't lace it too tightly. It is there to control the luff when hoisting and handing sail not to pin it too the mast.

 

[Simes]

Good Ideas

I have been having similar thoughts myself. I like the idea of lashing in a zig-zag, I had'nt thought of that.
I susspect that I am going to use the parrel beads and some decent modern rope. But I may well use the lashing for the head/gaff and possibly for the foot/boom.

Many many thanks.

Simes

 

[Woodlouse]

For lashing the head and foot you don't need to use the same lashing as on the luff. The whole point about the luff lacing is that it offers low friction and very quickly slacks away when the throat halyard is loosed.

For the foot and head you'll probably want to consider half or marlin hitches which will hold it all in place well and will enable you to get it much tighter. You might also want to consider having the sail loose footed as it gives you a lot more control over the sail shape.

 

[westernman]

You can lace the sail on. The way it's done is instead of having a spiral of rope going down the mast you take the lacing line round the mast, through the sail then back round the mast the way it came so it forms a sort of zigzag.

Like so.

That is what I use on my 800ft gaff main which two of us hoist.

Just make sure that nothing is looped around the the bolts holding the boom fitting on when you have the throat halfway up.......

You can change the sail shape somewhat just by making the whole lacing tighter or slacker.

 

[Cornishman]

That is what I use on my 800ft gaff main which two of us hoist.

Just make sure that nothing is looped around the the bolts holding the boom fitting on when you have the throat halfway up.......

You can change the sail shape somewhat just by making the whole lacing tighter or slacker.

I am wondering which dimension is 800 feet? Some sail whichever it is.
Lacing is the way to go and is superior to even hoops, although not quite so convenient for mast climbing. We used it for both main and fore on Hoshi.
There is a variant to Woodlouse's diagram in John Leather's excellent book called simply Gaff Rig(see fig 36 on page 54), which is the way we used to do it. After each turn around the mast the lacing is passed between the next two luff grommets before going around the mast again. It will not jam, and also allows easy luff tensioning.
I always had a copy of Leather's book with me, it was invaluable.

 

[westernman]

I am wondering which dimension is 800 feet? ]

Square feet.

There is a variant to Woodlouse's diagram in John Leather's excellent book called simply Gaff Rig(see fig 36 on page 54), which is the way we used to do it.

Agreed. That book is invaluable. I always keep it on the boat to be able to figure things out when I need to.

 

[DownWest]

I assumed it was 800ft luff....

 

[westernman]

I assumed it was 800ft luff....

That really would be something on a 51ft boat

 

[DownWest]

What's wrong with high aspect? Even on a gaffer.
A

 

[Cornishman]

A Sore Throat

What's wrong with high aspect? Even on a gaffer.
A

Down in this part of the West an 800 feet high throat would be in the clouds most of the time, and you would be setting the main tops'l there too.

 

[DownWest]

Probably, but down in the SofF MC must get a splendid view from his Xtrees....

Time for breakfast....
A

 

[oldfrank]

Don't quite know why but parrel balls/beads seem best for the gaff jaws. Mast hoops are a problem when they break - you have to remove the spreaders to slide new ones down. Leaving a few unused on the mast in case of breakage would solve the problem but its hardly an elegant solution.

The Excelsior Trust found it difficult to steam replacement hoops - with a high level of breakage during bending. I think the boat does now have hoops but used rope covered in plastic piping for years. OF

 

[Woodlouse]

Don't quite know why but parrel balls/beads seem best for the gaff jaws. Mast hoops are a problem when they break - you have to remove the spreaders to slide new ones down. Leaving a few unused on the mast in case of breakage would solve the problem but its hardly an elegant solution.

The Excelsior Trust found it difficult to steam replacement hoops - with a high level of breakage during bending. I think the boat does now have hoops but used rope covered in plastic piping for years. OF

It's common to have at least one spare mast hoop as generally adding more requires taking the mast out. Best way to make 'em is to laminate them up with epoxy, we've got a set that have lasted 20 years without a single failure. Doubt either lacing or parrel beads could boast similar successes.

 

[DownWest]

Bit of a more practicle thought. Might one not make up "halves" by steaming thin ash laminates and epoxying them with a multiple step joint which is then glued up on the mast?
First operation on the bench at home, second carried out on a collar jig temp attached to the mast. Only one a day, but saves dropping the mast.
andrew

I expect lacing is the way for the OP.