Magnum
RIP
Are there any alternatives to British registration that make sense for a 22m boat? Seen a few around this size registered in Road Town, BVI but unsure whether they are still classed as British flagged vessels?
Alternatives to British registration?
- Thread starter Magnum
- Start date
Coupe
Well-Known Member
Isle of Man.
Plenty of choice from different finance houses.
Makes sence with boats valued at £1m plus imo.
Plenty of choice from different finance houses.
Makes sence with boats valued at £1m plus imo.
drewstwos
Well-Known Member
HI Magnum
There is a register of Mega Yachts here on the Isle of Man, from HUGE to a lot smaller, but I am sure they would be happy to register anyones... The ones that are registered here already are based world wide They do have their own site... a Google will find it... Hope this helps.
Cheers
Drew.
There is a register of Mega Yachts here on the Isle of Man, from HUGE to a lot smaller, but I am sure they would be happy to register anyones... The ones that are registered here already are based world wide They do have their own site... a Google will find it... Hope this helps.
Cheers
Drew.
rich
Well-Known Member
Magnum
RIP
Thanks for the suggestions.
I'm looking for a registration option that isn't British or rather that makes the vessel not a British asset, if you get my drift. I'm not sure how IoM or Jersey registration indicates the boat's asset status or if it is irrelevant based on other factors.
I'm looking for a registration option that isn't British or rather that makes the vessel not a British asset, if you get my drift. I'm not sure how IoM or Jersey registration indicates the boat's asset status or if it is irrelevant based on other factors.
Neddie_Seagoon
Well-Known Member
IoM is independent of UK, a different state, so the asset would be Manx registered, not British - that's why they operate an IoM registry.
Magnum
RIP
Manx registered but still British ships.
http://www.isleofman.com/finance/finance_sector/marine/yachtreg.asp
"Manx registered yachts are British Ships. They are, however, under the separate jurisdiction of the Isle of Man Marine Administration."
http://www.isleofman.com/finance/finance_sector/marine/yachtreg.asp
"Manx registered yachts are British Ships. They are, however, under the separate jurisdiction of the Isle of Man Marine Administration."
Neddie_Seagoon
Well-Known Member
All depends on motivation for registering elsewhere. I believe the asset would be outside the scope of the UK tax authorities, but retain all the benefits of flying the Red Ensign. Give them a call.
Nautical
Well-Known Member
If you purchase the vessel through and Isle of Man corporate or LLP then the vessel is owned and operated by a manx company is therefore liable to manx tax laws and legislation not UK. The Isle of Man is not part of the UK but the British Isles. Its a complex business if you are UK resident and the vessel is too so it needs to be carefully structured and sweaky clean however there can be a number of personal benefits too by reg'ing and purchasing the vessel here that may prove very efficient. Best bet is speak to one of the dozens of Manx co's specialising in such here are a few.
Ernst & Young
Ocra
Dohle
CYS
Simcocks
equiom
Ernst & Young
Ocra
Dohle
CYS
Simcocks
equiom
MapisM
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
All depends on motivation for registering elsewhere.
[/ QUOTE ]That's rather obvious, innit?
The reason for making the vessel not a British asset can only be that the vessel actually is a British asset.
All depends on motivation for registering elsewhere.
[/ QUOTE ]That's rather obvious, innit?
The reason for making the vessel not a British asset can only be that the vessel actually is a British asset.
Bajansailor
Well-Known Member
Apart from the BVI's, you could consider the Cayman Islands - more info about them at www.cishipping.com
Or Bermuda http://www.gov.bm/portal/server.pt?open=...amp;cached=true
Although they say they are part of the British Registry, so maybe no good for you?
Or Bermuda http://www.gov.bm/portal/server.pt?open=...amp;cached=true
Although they say they are part of the British Registry, so maybe no good for you?
jfm
Well-Known Member
Magnum, you don't say exactly what you want to achieve but if you want it to be a non UK situs asset for say IHT purposes then, as a matter of UK tax law, registering it in any of the non UK red ensign registries (eg IoM, Jersey, Cayman, etc)would achieve that. The fact it would be a "british ship" and fly a red ensign wouldn't make it a UK situs asset within the meaning of UK tax law. But is that what you're trying to achieve?
Much of what is written above on tax is wrong. Likewise, the websites linked to contain many tax inaccuracies. IoM and Jersey in particular have many websites saying "register your boat in Iom/Jersey and get tax advantages", when in fact the tax advantages are generally not at all dependent on the registry and you can get the same tax result if the boat is UK flagged.
As a general rule on tax planning, imho it is better not to ask anyone in a tax haven first. They tend to tell you just about their haven, and say "come here", rather than tell you the best place to go taking into account all onshore/offshore locations. When you have selected your tax haven, ask locals for detialed local advice and paperwork assistance
Much of what is written above on tax is wrong. Likewise, the websites linked to contain many tax inaccuracies. IoM and Jersey in particular have many websites saying "register your boat in Iom/Jersey and get tax advantages", when in fact the tax advantages are generally not at all dependent on the registry and you can get the same tax result if the boat is UK flagged.
As a general rule on tax planning, imho it is better not to ask anyone in a tax haven first. They tend to tell you just about their haven, and say "come here", rather than tell you the best place to go taking into account all onshore/offshore locations. When you have selected your tax haven, ask locals for detialed local advice and paperwork assistance
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Agree with jfm, Magnum. My boat is Guernsey registered but that does'nt confer any special tax advantages on me. The only reason it is Guernsey registered was that it was easier to transfer from it's previous Dutch registration to Guernsey registration rather than to standard Brit registration (ie Cardiff)
If your motivation is tax efficiency then, as jfm says, the ownership structure is the most important thing. Just registering your boat in the CI or IoM on it's own does not mean you will avoid VAT, for example, otherwise everybody would do it. I'm no expert so you need to talk to clued up tax accountants and they're quite rare in my experience. The kind of thing you could consider to reduce your VAT bill might be a form of leasing (Belgian based I think) or owning your boat within a company set up for charter but Sunseeker themselves should be able to give you advice on this. Like you, I see a lot of large boats in the Med which are BVI or Cayman flagged and I guess this is done in conjunction with a BVI or Cayman reg company. What tax advantages this gives I don't know but I do know that, in some Euro countries, there are wealth based taxes so boat owners try to find ways of hiding asset ownership but this would'nt apply to UK owners because, as yet, we don't have any wealth taxes
As I say, it's worth talking to good accountants
If your motivation is tax efficiency then, as jfm says, the ownership structure is the most important thing. Just registering your boat in the CI or IoM on it's own does not mean you will avoid VAT, for example, otherwise everybody would do it. I'm no expert so you need to talk to clued up tax accountants and they're quite rare in my experience. The kind of thing you could consider to reduce your VAT bill might be a form of leasing (Belgian based I think) or owning your boat within a company set up for charter but Sunseeker themselves should be able to give you advice on this. Like you, I see a lot of large boats in the Med which are BVI or Cayman flagged and I guess this is done in conjunction with a BVI or Cayman reg company. What tax advantages this gives I don't know but I do know that, in some Euro countries, there are wealth based taxes so boat owners try to find ways of hiding asset ownership but this would'nt apply to UK owners because, as yet, we don't have any wealth taxes
As I say, it's worth talking to good accountants
Nautical
Well-Known Member
Agree JFM but there are advantages here (as elsewhere), otherwise who would bother on the otherhand it seems more advantagous on stuff over 24 metres. I think if it is a VAT issue you will find it difficult with UK C&E who have declared that they are on the war path to stamp out any form of Vat scheme for private vessels, the dutch leasing scheme springs to mind and is no more or certainly not recommendable.
Agree Sunseeker would be a good starting point their owners have placed a lot of tonage here.
Agree Sunseeker would be a good starting point their owners have placed a lot of tonage here.
Magnum
RIP
Thanks Deleted User but I do understand that. My motives are not tax efficiency from a purchasing perspective.
jfm, you have a PM.
jfm, you have a PM.
jfm
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Agree JFM but there are advantages here (as elsewhere), otherwise who would bother on the otherhand it seems more advantagous on stuff over 24 metres. I think if it is a VAT issue you will find it difficult with UK C&E who have declared that they are on the war path to stamp out any form of Vat scheme for private vessels, the dutch leasing scheme springs to mind and is no more or certainly not recommendable.
[/ QUOTE ]
Who would bother? Quite a lot of badly-advised (tax-wise)people bother. Anonymity-seekers bother. But dont deduce from the large numbers of red ensign tax haven registrations that UK registration doesn't work too. There are lots of well-advised superyacht owners whose boats are UK flagged and still highly tax efficient. Ilona, Parsifal 3, Duke Town, Mosaic, Bernie Ecclestone's Petara are all UK flagged, frexample.
I agree that UK C&E are more difficult VAT-wise than Manx VAT folks but using the Manx VAT system isn't anything to do with flagging your boat in IoM. Likewise using or not using the Dutch leasing schemes (which, generally, are poorly designed imho; and I was saying that long before the recent UK HMRC attack on them, indeed I've always advised yacht owners against those structures) isn't dependent on flagging. The point I'm making is that while there are different tax systems in different countries, and some are much better than others, the use/non use of any particular tax system hardly ever has anything to do with where you flag the boat. All those websites that say "flag your boat here, we have a friendly tax system" are quite misleading on this point
Agree JFM but there are advantages here (as elsewhere), otherwise who would bother on the otherhand it seems more advantagous on stuff over 24 metres. I think if it is a VAT issue you will find it difficult with UK C&E who have declared that they are on the war path to stamp out any form of Vat scheme for private vessels, the dutch leasing scheme springs to mind and is no more or certainly not recommendable.
[/ QUOTE ]
Who would bother? Quite a lot of badly-advised (tax-wise)people bother. Anonymity-seekers bother. But dont deduce from the large numbers of red ensign tax haven registrations that UK registration doesn't work too. There are lots of well-advised superyacht owners whose boats are UK flagged and still highly tax efficient. Ilona, Parsifal 3, Duke Town, Mosaic, Bernie Ecclestone's Petara are all UK flagged, frexample.
I agree that UK C&E are more difficult VAT-wise than Manx VAT folks but using the Manx VAT system isn't anything to do with flagging your boat in IoM. Likewise using or not using the Dutch leasing schemes (which, generally, are poorly designed imho; and I was saying that long before the recent UK HMRC attack on them, indeed I've always advised yacht owners against those structures) isn't dependent on flagging. The point I'm making is that while there are different tax systems in different countries, and some are much better than others, the use/non use of any particular tax system hardly ever has anything to do with where you flag the boat. All those websites that say "flag your boat here, we have a friendly tax system" are quite misleading on this point
Nautical
Well-Known Member
Absolutely, but I would say the Manx registry people are very efficient and it seems much easier or at least a lot faster to get registered and surveyed through IOM, I guess as a package which I guess is what most folk are looking for it has its advantages, sure you can extract bits that are as efficient elsewhere but I think owners just like to hand the thing over to someone and say get on with it.
I am sure there are advantages in having registration, purchase, vat scheme, ownership / LLP or whatever all under the one roof rather than deal with different aspects of the ownership in different juristictions.
Anyway, I think that little three legs logo on the duster looks far nicer than those funny CI ones /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I am sure there are advantages in having registration, purchase, vat scheme, ownership / LLP or whatever all under the one roof rather than deal with different aspects of the ownership in different juristictions.
Anyway, I think that little three legs logo on the duster looks far nicer than those funny CI ones /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Magnum
RIP
[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, I think that little three legs logo on the duster looks far nicer than those funny CI ones /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
But only available to IoM residents I believe. Shame, I quite fancied a slightly different flag.
Anyway, I think that little three legs logo on the duster looks far nicer than those funny CI ones /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
But only available to IoM residents I believe. Shame, I quite fancied a slightly different flag.
jfm
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I am sure there are advantages in having registration, purchase, vat scheme, ownership / LLP or whatever all under the one roof rather than deal with different aspects of the ownership in different juristictions.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nope! Very much imho, but when dealing with public authorities and bureaucrats, spread your structure across multiple jusrisdictions so no one authority has tabs on it all and so you can use conflict-of-laws principles to get different treatment in 2 different countries on the same structure, hence have your cake and eat it. Freaxmple in my structure, I own the boat personally outright for UK (where I live) tax purposes so no BIK tax, but in France (where the boat lives) they interpret the SAME structure as meaning the boat is owned outright by a company in which I'm not a shareholder hence it qualifies as "in commercial charter use" when in France, which is very helpful. Just my $0.02!
I am sure there are advantages in having registration, purchase, vat scheme, ownership / LLP or whatever all under the one roof rather than deal with different aspects of the ownership in different juristictions.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nope! Very much imho, but when dealing with public authorities and bureaucrats, spread your structure across multiple jusrisdictions so no one authority has tabs on it all and so you can use conflict-of-laws principles to get different treatment in 2 different countries on the same structure, hence have your cake and eat it. Freaxmple in my structure, I own the boat personally outright for UK (where I live) tax purposes so no BIK tax, but in France (where the boat lives) they interpret the SAME structure as meaning the boat is owned outright by a company in which I'm not a shareholder hence it qualifies as "in commercial charter use" when in France, which is very helpful. Just my $0.02!