Alternative to Eberspacher

[Murv]

The metal parts of my chinaspachers are identical to the Eber D4.
The circuit board attachments are a little flimsier, the plastic push-in connections are also a little flimsy compared to the rubber coated Eber ones and look as if they'll be more susceptible to corrosion over time.

I fired them both up last week for the first time in months, an occasion which was always a very tense time with the Eberspachers.
Both lit first time, got to temperature quickly, then ran faultlessly as they've both done since day one

You'll certainly need to spend at least the same again on a skin fitting, exhaust hose, decent hose clamps and a silencer (if needed,) but it still comes in at a fraction of the cost of an Eber.

I am very sceptical of the claims of the 8 KW, they're the same dimensions as those badged as 5KW and I suspect are one and the same. Especially as the fuel burn figures seem to be the same as the 5KW...
I also suspect that the 5KW are actually a lot close to 4KW in actual output, real world performance on them is about the same as am Eber D4.
I have two "5KW" on a Turbo 36 (fairly large internal volume) and they heat it easily, even in the coldest weather.

 

[oldgit]

just had a quick look and they're £500+, so hardly an 'economy'....

Fairly sure my Planar with all the bits came to about £500.00, only extra was buying an adaptor
(from Ebay ) to get the 100mm warm air output of the heater down to my 75mm ducting.
The chap who purchased the the first Planar in order to cannibalize it for spares, made a choice to import it direct from " Russia" rather than buying from a UK source.
Not good. It took absolutely ages to arrive and by the time carriage charges and a host of import duties had been levied it simply did not make economic sense.
Let alone the problems of warranties etc.

 

[realslimshady]

Thanks Murv. I've invested in the 8kw models, it's a little longer than the D2 but will fit ok. Obviously l have the skin fittings etc from the original fit, so hopefully it will be fairly straightforward, though l expect l will have to change the ducting to larger bore. I'll report back at some point.

 

[jon and michie]

I have been browsing this thread with interest - some swear by the russian planar make some are going for the chinese make - I am thinking of getting a heater to extend our boating use in the colder months.
what concerns me a little is the exhaust pipe/silencer which gets very hot especially on a grp boat as seen in this review.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YthaCqkMOs

some folk seem to be going for the cheaper chinese version but then are needing to change out parts to enable a better installation - for some reason I am slightly edging towards the russian make as there is a uk main dealer but still unsure.
we know they are cheaper than eber and webasto but I do have reservations i.e you get what you pay for.

so does anyone had the experiences of both the russian and chinese makes- and which is better in terms of fitting - running of the system etc.

jon

 

[Bigplumbs]

I have been browsing this thread with interest - some swear by the russian planar make some are going for the chinese make - I am thinking of getting a heater to extend our boating use in the colder months.
what concerns me a little is the exhaust pipe/silencer which gets very hot especially on a grp boat as seen in this review.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YthaCqkMOs

some folk seem to be going for the cheaper chinese version but then are needing to change out parts to enable a better installation - for some reason I am slightly edging towards the russian make as there is a uk main dealer but still unsure.
we know they are cheaper than eber and webasto but I do have reservations i.e you get what you pay for.

so does anyone had the experiences of both the russian and chinese makes- and which is better in terms of fitting - running of the system etc.

jon

I am afraid the old adage/Cliché 'You get what you pay for' is simply a stupid one.

If you search the net or read the other thread linked in this thread you will see that the only reason Webasto and Eber were expensive was because they were price fixing and this was found out and the EU prosecuted them and they had to pay hundreds of millions in fines.

Go with the Chinese ones. Buy a new exhaust and hull fitting. You will not be didapointed and will save hundreds.... Don't measure quality based on price.

 

[Bbroomlea]

The Eber D2 fitted to my previous boat was nothing but trouble. It was unreliable and when it did work didnt run properly.

A fellow boater had similar issues so swapped it out for a Chinese one in about 2 hrs. Never had a problem since.

They are simple units really - how Eber and Webasto charge so much is beyond me. The Eber units have not changed in years either so they are not exactly spending £m's on development

 

[realslimshady]

The Eber D2 fitted to my previous boat was nothing but trouble. It was unreliable and when it did work didnt run properly.

A fellow boater had similar issues so swapped it out for a Chinese one in about 2 hrs. Never had a problem since.

They are simple units really - how Eber and Webasto charge so much is beyond me. The Eber units have not changed in years either so they are not exactly spending £m's on development

Yes exactly. Paid £300 for a second hand D2 in perfect working order (hah!) which will not run for longer than 7 minutes at a time. Sent it to Mellors who tested it and said it ran perfectly, but it certainly won't in my boat! Anyway-ordered a chinese one on Saturday and it just arrived! Well impressed with that. Won't be able to do anything with it for a couple of weeks but will certainly update this thread once it's fitted.

 

[jon and michie]

I am afraid the old adage/Cliché 'You get what you pay for' is simply a stupid one.

If you search the net or read the other thread linked in this thread you will see that the only reason Webasto and Eber were expensive was because they were price fixing and this was found out and the EU prosecuted them and they had to pay hundreds of millions in fines.

Go with the Chinese ones. Buy a new exhaust and hull fitting. You will not be didapointed and will save hundreds.... Don't measure quality based on price.

I get that about eber and webasto over price fixing.
I was more curious between the russian and chinese versions.
ok so where do I get one of the replacement exhaust and silencer and is that the only parts that really need to be changed out.
and where is the best place to order one of these chinese heaters is there a prefered selller?

jon

 

[Hot Property]

Just to save anyone the effort regarding the 68 million euro fine they received...

https://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-15-5214_en.htm

And you can claim damages too:-

Action for damages

Any person or firm affected by anti-competitive behaviour as described in this case may bring the matter before the courts of the Member States and seek damages. The case law of the Court of Justice of the European Union and the Antitrust Regulation 1/2003 both confirm that in cases before national courts, a Commission decision is binding proof that the behaviour took place and was illegal. Even though the Commission has fined the companies concerned, damages can be awarded without these being reduced on account of the Commission fine.

The Antitrust Damages Directive, which the Member States have to implement in their legal systems by 27 December 2016, makes it easier for victims of anti-competitive practices to obtain damages. More information on antitrust damages actions, including a practical guide on how to quantify antitrust harm, is available here.

IP/15/5214

 

[Murv]

I would imagine that the Russian planar's are better quality (better connectors, cabling and temperature regulation,) and it's where my money would have gone if I wasn't on such a tight budget. But, I am, so it was Chinaspacher's for me!

Skin fittings on ebay, I've used the ones from Southern lasers for a few years now, they're very good quality:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_....l1313&_nkw=eberspacher+skin+fitting&_sacat=0

Butler Technik sell the exhaust hose, amongst other things:

https://www.butlertechnik.com/ebers...basto-exhaust-pipe-24mm-36061296-90394a-p2128

You'll also need some decent hose clips, and possibly fuel line although both mine arrived with perfectly satisfactory fuel lines included.

EDIT: The heater sellers themselves change from day to day, just find the unit you want with your preferred controller at the best price and check their feedback.

 

[peteK]

The Eber D2 fitted to my previous boat was nothing but trouble. It was unreliable and when it did work didnt run properly.

A fellow boater had similar issues so swapped it out for a Chinese one in about 2 hrs. Never had a problem since.

They are simple units really - how Eber and Webasto charge so much is beyond me. The Eber units have not changed in years either so they are not exactly spending £m's on development

Most faults with diesel heaters are due to poor installation whether chinese or eberspacher,plenty of videos on utube.
Very pleased with my chinese one fitted last year.

 

[Hadenough]

What diameter are the inlet and outlet on the Chinese 5Kw jobbies?

 

[realslimshady]

What diameter are the inlet and outlet on the Chinese 5Kw jobbies?

just measured those supplied with the 8kw one which arrived earlier and inlet is 25-26mm and exhaust 23mm i/d

 

[ST840]

Apologies if this is a silly question but, I’ve never fitted one of these heaters before. What do you mount them on (ie what does the mounting bracket screw to)? And where in the hull should the flue outlet go ? Are the outlets twin pipe, ie air in and gases out, like a heating boiler in the home ?
Thanks

 

[superheat6k]

Just to save anyone the effort regarding the 68 million euro fine they received...

https://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-15-5214_en.htm

And you can claim damages too:-

Action for damages

Any person or firm affected by anti-competitive behaviour as described in this case may bring the matter before the courts of the Member States and seek damages. The case law of the Court of Justice of the European Union and the Antitrust Regulation 1/2003 both confirm that in cases before national courts, a Commission decision is binding proof that the behaviour took place and was illegal. Even though the Commission has fined the companies concerned, damages can be awarded without these being reduced on account of the Commission fine.

The Antitrust Damages Directive, which the Member States have to implement in their legal systems by 27 December 2016, makes it easier for victims of anti-competitive practices to obtain damages. More information on antitrust damages actions, including a practical guide on how to quantify antitrust harm, is available here.

IP/15/5214

Nick
So does this mean I can somehow apply for a partial refund for the ~£1,400 D4 I bought for my last boat ~ 2014 ?

 

[superheat6k]

Apologies if this is a silly question but, I’ve never fitted one of these heaters before. What do you mount them on (ie what does the mounting bracket screw to)? And where in the hull should the flue outlet go ? Are the outlets twin pipe, ie air in and gases out, like a heating boiler in the home ?
Thanks

Here are some photos of my set up. The metal base plate comes With the heater.

Not caught fire yet - and likely won't as I have fitted a thermal safety cut out direct to the pump feed.

The exhaust is genuine Eber, with a Webasto sealed silencer (NB these were already laying in my workshop so free for this install). Note the fibreglass wrap on the exhaust.

 

[Hot Property]

Nick
So does this mean I can somehow apply for a partial refund for the ~£1,400 D4 I bought for my last boat ~ 2014 ?

I guess that if you could prove you bought it during the cartel period then it's a yes.

JFM of this parish may have a view?

Group action on a no win no fee basis...

 

[ST840]

Very nice set up, if only I had that kind of room !!
Where does the exhaust outlet go with relation to the water line, I’m guessing as high as possible but is there a standard ?

 

[oldgit]

on the subject of the exhaust outlet.......... IMHO.
It really needs(if practically possible) to exit at the stern of the boat.The main advantage being to avoid melted fenders and much more socially acceptable when rafting up, plus not having the decision which side to moor dictated by heater exhaust.
It needs to be located sensibly above the waterline so that if the boat is well loaded or heeling it does not go below the surface.
Your outlet and stainless exhaust hose might well be waterproof (ish) when new but it will degrade over the years.

Even the high and mighty get it wrong..............
Chuim could not understand two things on his new to him boat.
A , salt water was entering aft bilge.........?
B, saloon was filled with black smoke every so often when heater was on ?
After weeks of faffing and fruitless messing around, he stuck his head in the lazerette while the boat was on the plane.
The exhaust fitting went under the water and prevented the exhaust gas from venting into the open air, the heater then flamed out filling boat with smoke.At the same time water was forced in under pressure through the stainless pipe/exhaust fitting due to rusty clamp and knackered stainless pipe.

Boat was a Princess 360 and heater factory fitted.
Exhaust was resealed and now seems OK, simply too much aggro and money to reposition outlet.
All the fittings including cockpit drains appear to be barely about water line.

 

[superheat6k]

Very nice set up, if only I had that kind of room !!
Where does the exhaust outlet go with relation to the water line, I’m guessing as high as possible but is there a standard ?

My exhaust pipe run is all downhill to the fitting. I bought an expensive threaded tube version which meant I do not have an extra three holes mounting the thing.

The outlet is ~ 18" above the waterline and above the level of other drain outlets. I have also placed a warning notice directly above "Heater outlet - No fender"