A
Anonymous
Guest
Re: AIS \"radar\" information please
That's why they shouldn't call it AIS Radar.
That's why they shouldn't call it AIS Radar.
AIS "radar" information please
- Thread starter pappaecho
- Start date
tome
Well-Known Member
Re: AIS \"radar\" information please
[ QUOTE ]
'twasn't me who wrote it, honest mister
[/ QUOTE ]
Quite right - sorry you got caught in my radar!
[ QUOTE ]
'twasn't me who wrote it, honest mister
[/ QUOTE ]
Quite right - sorry you got caught in my radar!
PeterGee
Well-Known Member
Re: AIS \"radar\" information please
My ignorance stems from being involved in all sorts of naval radar (and SONAR for that matter) for a large number of years.
With any research, you will find that SONAR is an equally poorly defined collective term.
My enthusiasm to counter your point is that due to the c*!p posted here, it would easy to think the device is just a rip off from NASA. This is clearly not the case. ANYTHING that helps to get good, even if incomplete, information to the hands of a skipper is in my mind a good thing. However, constant misplaced opinionation on here, in my mind, waters down the attractiveness of the product.
So stupid arguments about whether a device is allowed to be called radar when, wait for it, it gives range and bearing information for some targets, is to be frank pathetic.
If 'educated' forumites were to spend effort on ensuring people were clear on the limitations of AIS Radar, do you not think that is much more constructive?
The again, I guess you may consider illinformed personal attacks on people to be more entertaining.
My ignorance stems from being involved in all sorts of naval radar (and SONAR for that matter) for a large number of years.
With any research, you will find that SONAR is an equally poorly defined collective term.
My enthusiasm to counter your point is that due to the c*!p posted here, it would easy to think the device is just a rip off from NASA. This is clearly not the case. ANYTHING that helps to get good, even if incomplete, information to the hands of a skipper is in my mind a good thing. However, constant misplaced opinionation on here, in my mind, waters down the attractiveness of the product.
So stupid arguments about whether a device is allowed to be called radar when, wait for it, it gives range and bearing information for some targets, is to be frank pathetic.
If 'educated' forumites were to spend effort on ensuring people were clear on the limitations of AIS Radar, do you not think that is much more constructive?
The again, I guess you may consider illinformed personal attacks on people to be more entertaining.
Ships_Cat
Well-Known Member
Re: AIS \"radar\" information please
I think that all that is being said is that it should not be called Radar - it isn't Radar but people in the pleasure world will assume that it is Radar and hence has the same outputs as Radar.
Advertising the differences between the two on here won't change that one bit - only a miniscule proportion of the boating population reads these forums, or indeed any forums, magazines, etc and even if they do the majority still will not understand (or want to understand /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif) the difference.
John
I think that all that is being said is that it should not be called Radar - it isn't Radar but people in the pleasure world will assume that it is Radar and hence has the same outputs as Radar.
Advertising the differences between the two on here won't change that one bit - only a miniscule proportion of the boating population reads these forums, or indeed any forums, magazines, etc and even if they do the majority still will not understand (or want to understand /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif) the difference.
John
PeterGee
Well-Known Member
Re: AIS \"radar\" information please
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RaDAR is a generic term for using radio information to present positional information
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You may indeed say 'garbage', but you qualify it by sprouting utter bollox, if I may
The origins of radar, as most will know, is in using radio waves to Detect targets.
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Whilst SSR is often used in conjunction with primary radar
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When is it ever used without? And it isn't an 'easier way to present range and direction information'. The primary radar does this unaided. SSR augments the information with altitude and more recently with additional information
I think you'd already gone back to sleep before you posted this drivel!
[/ QUOTE ]
To correct some of your misunderstandings:
SSR is linked to Primary Radar to make it easier for SSR radar to provide range and bearing. However, that doesn't mean SSR could not provide this info. Indeed, as already posted, SSR can and I understand now can carry GPS sourced data.
SSR was used to carry much more than altitude data more than 40 years ago. Warships have for a long time carried SSR transponders. Not sure the value in a warship broadcasting it's altitude.
Just because the first radar used a reflected wave to detect targets, I would not say that all radars *have* to do that. See SSR. (No don't, we have done that)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
RaDAR is a generic term for using radio information to present positional information
[/ QUOTE ]
You may indeed say 'garbage', but you qualify it by sprouting utter bollox, if I may
The origins of radar, as most will know, is in using radio waves to Detect targets.
[ QUOTE ]
Whilst SSR is often used in conjunction with primary radar
[/ QUOTE ]
When is it ever used without? And it isn't an 'easier way to present range and direction information'. The primary radar does this unaided. SSR augments the information with altitude and more recently with additional information
I think you'd already gone back to sleep before you posted this drivel!
[/ QUOTE ]
To correct some of your misunderstandings:
SSR is linked to Primary Radar to make it easier for SSR radar to provide range and bearing. However, that doesn't mean SSR could not provide this info. Indeed, as already posted, SSR can and I understand now can carry GPS sourced data.
SSR was used to carry much more than altitude data more than 40 years ago. Warships have for a long time carried SSR transponders. Not sure the value in a warship broadcasting it's altitude.
Just because the first radar used a reflected wave to detect targets, I would not say that all radars *have* to do that. See SSR. (No don't, we have done that)
A
Anonymous
Guest
Re: AIS \"radar\" information please
Maybe the point is that in the commercial aviation field you are dealing in an environment where everyone is well-trained.
Surely you wouldn't use a confusing and potentially misleading term as 'radar' in the leisure yachting market knowing full well that amateur sailors could mistake the AIS system for a true radar?
Or, I hear you say, you might if you wanted to sell AIS systems and it suited you for your cheap £200 products to seem like 'much the same sort of thing' as a radar. Pretty cheap trick, eh?
Maybe the point is that in the commercial aviation field you are dealing in an environment where everyone is well-trained.
Surely you wouldn't use a confusing and potentially misleading term as 'radar' in the leisure yachting market knowing full well that amateur sailors could mistake the AIS system for a true radar?
Or, I hear you say, you might if you wanted to sell AIS systems and it suited you for your cheap £200 products to seem like 'much the same sort of thing' as a radar. Pretty cheap trick, eh?
Ships_Cat
Well-Known Member
Re: AIS \"radar\" information please
Maybe the point is that in the commercial aviation field you are dealing in an environment where everyone is well-trained.
Building on that comment the equivalent to AIS in aviation is Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast (ADS-B) where the aircraft continuously tx position, speed , identity, altitude, etc - NO ONE refers to that as Radar (because they actually know what radar is /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif) and the pleasure boat market should do the same.
As far as NASA is concerned one can only assume that they do not know better or they use the term "radar" as a marketing ploy to capture the uninitiated - both of which are sad stances for it to take.
John
Maybe the point is that in the commercial aviation field you are dealing in an environment where everyone is well-trained.
Building on that comment the equivalent to AIS in aviation is Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast (ADS-B) where the aircraft continuously tx position, speed , identity, altitude, etc - NO ONE refers to that as Radar (because they actually know what radar is /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif) and the pleasure boat market should do the same.
As far as NASA is concerned one can only assume that they do not know better or they use the term "radar" as a marketing ploy to capture the uninitiated - both of which are sad stances for it to take.
John
A
Anonymous
Guest
Re: AIS \"radar\" information please
Yes, exactly. Though NASA isn't, how shall we put this?, one of the leading Marine electronics companies in Europe. It would be much more surprising if the likes of Raymarine, Furuno and Simrad were to call their AIS a 'radar'. Let's hope that they have the good sense not to do so.
Yes, exactly. Though NASA isn't, how shall we put this?, one of the leading Marine electronics companies in Europe. It would be much more surprising if the likes of Raymarine, Furuno and Simrad were to call their AIS a 'radar'. Let's hope that they have the good sense not to do so.