"AIS issues: Garmin, Navico, McMurdo, AMEC and SRT"

GTom said:
Sorry and thanks Paul! Corrected the link.
As I understand, devices with the tested AMEC board may fail to transmit under certain circumstances.
Click to expand...

I only skimmed through some of it, i have to say i've never had such a complaint from a customer, same as Milltech.

If i was fitting an AIS i would fit the Em-Trak B100. Has all of the features of the AMEC (non-wifi) and if you want the splitter, as opposed to fitting a 2nd VHF antenna, look for the B100 sailor pack, comes with the splitter for less money than the AMEC and is UK built.
 
GTom said:
Has this been rectified yet?
https://www.panbo.com/ais-issues-garmin-navico-mcmurdo-amec-and-srt/
.........Now a bit puzzled if I should carry on?
Click to expand...

Funnily enough, I looked to see if Panbo had updated this information recently - I event went to the original Swedish site to check. I couldn't find anything new.
Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a comprehensive cross-reference site where it is possible to check which AIS receivers(transceivers) deliver which VDM sentence messages (PGNs for N2k hardware) and which MFDs display the current icons correctly and completely. I went to SIBS with the intention of updating my chartplotter and radar but I found such misunderstanding and confusion by the staffers on the 'MFD' stands that I spent the cash on a new mainsail instead.

Paul is an enthusiastic advocate of the Em-Trak B100 AIS transceiver and, based on his suggestion, I have looked at their PGN detail and, I may be wrong, but it seems to fulfil the 'comprehensive' dataset need. I shall be buying one in the near future.

However, I could not get an unambiguous answer from the MFD people. I'm delaying my MFD/Radar update.

I think the answer to your question "Should I carry on?" depends on your type of sailing.
E.g. The Commissioners of Irish Lights is enthusiastically deploying AIS AtoNs (look just S of Kilmore quay) and I want to be sure that I am, as far as I can be, future proof against this trend. On the other hand, if your home territory is the Solent, then seeing these AtoNs would fall into the 'interesting, but not critical' category.

Just my personal opinion

Cheers
Bob
 
Indeed, I expect a 500€ (reduced!) device to be future proof at least to some degree. Ireland, and many other places are on my list.
I have to replace my MFD (got a very old one, running a British Isles chart where I am ATM) in <2 years, until then, I'd use the AIS data via wifi on my tablet/OpenCPN.

The AMEC unit came up reduced in a German store (svb), seems a very reasonable entry to get a wifi-enabled AIS. But obviously would like to avoid any kind of trouble - if there is one. Customer feedback, wherever I check is mostly positive, but we all know that store feedback are usually written 10minutes after opening the box...
 
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GTom said:
Sorry and thanks Paul! Corrected the link.
As I understand, devices with the tested AMEC board may fail to transmit under certain circumstances.
Click to expand...

This thread is interesting in the fact that at sporadic intervals (2-6 weeks apart) my M10 (Camino) stops transmitting but continues to receive data OK. I did report this to McMurdo in November 2017 - and it was referred to their product manager who never replied. I will resend that email to see what has happened over this issue. The last transmission 'stop' was yesterday Sep 29, 2019 02:03 UTC.
The unit can only start transmitting again after a reboot (power off and on again) which I will do when next down at the boat.
I am of an open mind where my issue lies - voltage fluctuations (unlikely as this freeze happens with no other electrical activity) or the GPS receiver module which would be hard to isolate as the root cause.
I am based in a busy marina right next door to a very busy fishing harbour with a lot of AIS and VHF traffic which seemed to be referred to in the article by Panbo. Usually before setting out, I use one of the many apps to check the transmission status as well as the indicator lights on the unit.
I maintain the unit at the latest firmware level (currently I have 1.2.8.03 installed) and the only newer version I have seen is 1.2.8.05 where I have not yet found the release notes about the changes.
Overall I am very happy with the actual unit and how well it integrated to my older Raymarine installation and this 'minor' irritation will I hope have been addressed - or I will establish if there is a fault just with my own transponder. I find it hard to believe that all the units sold have this potential issue - or if it was simply related to a specific hardware rev level?
 
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It might be related to firmware and hardware rev, as you said. However, this can only be verified by testing a newer version under similar or more demanding conditions.

I know AMEC has a "gen2" version of the 108W - no idea though when it was released.

Here is a .pdf, with a rather late (end of 2017) response to the 2013 report, not really reassuring, rather neglecting the problem even after years. In the meantime, new hardware revision ("108w gen2) came out, and the original report expired. I wonder if there is a new report.

@Paul: thanks for the EM-Trak idea. As I definitely need wifi, the B330 and B360 are the relevant players. Downside, that the wifi functionality seems far behind the Amec 108W (no repeater mode, no external wifi antenna: I can't use it to forward a patchy harbor network to the inside of the boat). However, European manufacturer and Warranty is a plus. And the B360 is the cheapest Class B+ I've seen so far.
BTW: do all EM-Trak units have SRT boards in them? As I understand the panbo article, SRT is "clean":) (the title is misleading, the "accused" NAIS-500 doesn't have SRT electronics inside).

Anyway, the story (and the moderately priced B360) made me thinking about B+/SOTDMA again...

P.S: how do I remove a misplaced attachment?
 

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Hope this helps.

Please criticise the following – my attempt to clarify how to buy a fully compatible combination of AIS source and AIS display.
On the basis that a fully competent display will be N2k based (and to make my task easier) I have only examined the PGN outputs and inputs of each piece of kit.

THE DATA SOURCE PGNs

As far as I can make out, the essential PGNs are:-

129038 AIS01, AIS02, AIS03 Class A Position Report
129039 AIS18 Class B Position Report
129040 AIS19 Class B Extended Position Report
129041 AIS21 Aids to Navigation (AtoN) Report
129793 AIS04 & AIS11 UTC and Data Report
129794 AIS05 Class A Static and Voyage Related Data
129798 AIS09 SAR Aircraft Position Report
129802 AIS14 Safety Related Broadcast Message
129809 AIS24 Class B “CS” Static Data Report, Part A
129810 AIS24 Class B “CS” Static Data Report, Part B

TYPE OF SOURCE

I looked at AIS Transceivers, AIS Receivers, VHF Radios with AIS and Protocol converters.

I then took the cheapest of each type on offer and did a web search on their manuals to check if they output the PGNs above.
The products were
AIS Transceiver: Em-Trak B100
AIS Receiver: Digital Yacht AISNode
VHF Radio: Icom M506GE
Protocol Converter: Actisense NGW-1

Looking at PGN compliance, it is pretty good news! Missing PGNs are:-
129040 (Replaced by 129809/129810?) – Em-Trak B100
129798 – Digital Yacht AISNode
129802 – Icom M506GE

Actisense seems to convert all the required data (since mid 2018)

Next step is to check the main suppliers of N2k MFDs

Cheers
Bob
 
RIBW said:
Looking at PGN compliance, it is pretty good news! Missing PGNs are:-
129040 (Replaced by 129809/129810?) – Em-Trak B100
Click to expand...
Trying to find out what that message is that my B100 is missing, I found this page: https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=AISMessagesB

It had this to say about message 19:
Note: For future equipment: this message is not needed and should not be used. All content is covered by Message 18, Message 24A and 24B.
Click to expand...
All good then :)
 
RIBW said:
.......On the basis that a fully competent display will be N2k based (and to make my task easier) I have only examined the PGN outputs and inputs of each piece of kit.

As far as I can make out, the essential PGNs are:-

129038 AIS01, AIS02, AIS03 Class A Position Report
129039 AIS18 Class B Position Report
129040 AIS19 Class B Extended Position Report
129041 AIS21 Aids to Navigation (AtoN) Report
129793 AIS04 & AIS11 UTC and Data Report
129794 AIS05 Class A Static and Voyage Related Data
129798 AIS09 SAR Aircraft Position Report
129802 AIS14 Safety Related Broadcast Message
129809 AIS24 Class B “CS” Static Data Report, Part A
129810 AIS24 Class B “CS” Static Data Report, Part B

Next step is to check the main suppliers of N2k MFDs
Click to expand...

Hope this helps -Part 2.
Another wet and windy day gave me time to look at the MFDs. The following was done solely by internet search of manuals as would be done by a punter comparing products. (I didn't contact any supplier to check anything). If I have drawn some wrong conclusions it could well be due to the manufacturers not keeping their information up to date, leaving old information online or a simple typo (e.g. Raymarine incorrectly naming one of the PGNs - I forget which!).

I looked at Raymarine (Axiom & Element), B&G (Zeus3 & Vulcan 7), Furuno (GP) and Garmin (9x2).

The only MFD that, apparently, processes all of the above PGNs is the Raymarine Element series.

The Raymarine Axiom misses 129798
B&G's Zeus misses 129793 and 129798
B&G's Vulcan misses 129041, 129793 and 129798
Furuno CP1x71 misses 129802
Garmin 9x2 misses 129041 and 129793

Garmin missing 129041 was a bit of an enigma because elsewhere in the manual it describes the AIS AtoN symbols ?!?

As a cruising sailor, I found the exercise valuable because it awoke an interest in the Raymarine Element: Cheaper than Axiom, compatible with RM's radar and a full set of AIS PGNs - I may have saved myself some cash.

Cheers
Bob
 
RIBW said:
Hope this helps -Part 2.
Another wet and windy day gave me time to look at the MFDs. The following was done solely by internet search of manuals as would be done by a punter comparing products. (I didn't contact any supplier to check anything). If I have drawn some wrong conclusions it could well be due to the manufacturers not keeping their information up to date, leaving old information online or a simple typo (e.g. Raymarine incorrectly naming one of the PGNs - I forget which!).

I looked at Raymarine (Axiom & Element), B&G (Zeus3 & Vulcan 7), Furuno (GP) and Garmin (9x2).

The only MFD that, apparently, processes all of the above PGNs is the Raymarine Element series.

The Raymarine Axiom misses 129798
B&G's Zeus misses 129793 and 129798
B&G's Vulcan misses 129041, 129793 and 129798
Furuno CP1x71 misses 129802
Garmin 9x2 misses 129041 and 129793

Garmin missing 129041 was a bit of an enigma because elsewhere in the manual it describes the AIS AtoN symbols ?!?

As a cruising sailor, I found the exercise valuable because it awoke an interest in the Raymarine Element: Cheaper than Axiom, compatible with RM's radar and a full set of AIS PGNs - I may have saved myself some cash.

Cheers
Bob
Click to expand...

Tried to interrogate the Lowrance product range, but apparently only their higher-tier HDS and Elite line speak NMEA 0183/2000: https://www.lowrance.com/globalassets/lowrance/about-us/2019-lowrance-catalog-us.pdf
 
GTom - did you get an y further on the Camini & McMurdo possible issue on the 108 and M10 transceivers (original V1 units) stopping their transmission?
I pinged McMurdo 1 week ago (based on their Product Manager not replying to me from around the time these 'issues' were being investigated) and no response as yet.
A simple power off/on and it starts transmitting again but I would not like it to suddenly decide to stop in the shipping lanes or poor vis weather.
Thanks.
 
DipperToo said:
GTom - did you get an y further on the Camini & McMurdo possible issue on the 108 and M10 transceivers (original V1 units) stopping their transmission?
I pinged McMurdo 1 week ago (based on their Product Manager not replying to me from around the time these 'issues' were being investigated) and no response as yet.
A simple power off/on and it starts transmitting again but I would not like it to suddenly decide to stop in the shipping lanes or poor vis weather.
Thanks.
Click to expand...

Honestly I did not pursue AMEC regarding the issue, because their dismissing tone on panbo and their "test" of the known to be compliant SRT unit sounds too fishy for me to invest in a unit with their electronics inside. Very likely going with an em-trak B360 SOTDMA unit.

What you might try is warranty and try to reproduce the environment with the replacement device. I found a single feedback complaining that an AMEC 108 unit was overheating and stopped transmitting in summer, but nothing yet regarding radio interference. I am also concerned about the latter, loosing transmission in a busy area (=lots of traffic too) is the last thing I want.

For the troubleshooting: do you have a splitter? Are all connections right (loss, swr)? As for the GPS being the source (jamming), I'd try to log the NMEA 0183 datastream and check for any discrepancies.
 
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Thanks for the suggestions.
Symptom both with splitter or dedicated aerial and all connections checked many times! The splitter I now use is from Camino. I do know that transmission will cease with any transponder if there is a loss of the GPS position signal. I will also try to hook up a tablet to monitor that the GPS data is present on the output from the M10/108 but I have no idea if the lack of transmission may also block the GPS output, even if the dedicated GPS receiver is working correctly.
I will persist with McMurdo to see where that takes me......
 
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