AIS - essential kit these days for channel crossing?

[john_morris_uk]

A couple of times over the years I have got amongst shipping having forgotten to switch on my Echomax X-band RTE.
Switch it on and two minutes later, most vessels in sight have visibly altered a bit and I can almost cross them off the list of concerns..
Yes they all *might* have been just about to alter anyway, but the same thing has happened repeatedly..
My boat is low in the water and wooden, as bad as it gets for natural radar visibility.
Yes they still get monitored anyway.
I deliberately tried this, twice, when beating out of the Skagerrak this July, and it instantly got clear results. It's a great feeling touching a button on a little plastic gadget and causing hundreds of thousands of tons of steel to move, almost at your beck and call :encouragement:
If it's a choice between that and AIS I'll take the RTE, all day long..

I can understand that perfectly as your boat is almost built for a low radar return (beautiful thought it is; I am a great admirer of the type but haven’t ever had the pleasure of sailing one). The temptation of an RTE for me would be on lean manned ocean crossings as I understand some models have an alarm facility. It’s tempting to get a bit blasé about looking round the horizon when you haven’t seen anything for a week and for a loud alarm to go off when the RTE is painted by the radar from a ship would be a good thing.

We have an AIS system Class B with an Echomax reflector permanently bolted high up the mast and it’s reassuring that in open waters I’ve yet to find a ship that hasn’t seen us.

 

[westhinder]

The temptation of an RTE for me would be on lean manned ocean crossings as I understand some models have an alarm facility. It’s tempting to get a bit blasé about looking round the horizon when you haven’t seen anything for a week and for a loud alarm to go off when the RTE is painted by the radar from a ship would be a good thing.

On the one real ocean crossing I have done, the first we knew of a ship in the vicinity was usually the RTE alarm sounding. At that point the ships were always over 20 miles away from us. You then started looking for an AIS signal, which appeared soon afterwards. In most cases that was all we ever saw, we only had visual contact with a couple of ships. Out of curiosity we called one or two ships and they confirmed they had us on radar and AIS.

 

[dom]

I find it quite interesting that so many people want all the information at the helm or in sight of the helm.

The only sop to this is that we have a ST60 graphics display which gives us a rolling road or distance to waypoint etc.

I too like getting out of the weather to have a relaxed think at the chart table, mess around with route/weather planning software, compare to written publications, etc. Also excellent if called when off watch as one can sort many nav issues right there.

And I also like a few floating i70s with vis for helm and crew.

In addition, I find bulkhead mounted Mfd(s) in the cockpit, which both the helm and crew can see, absolutely invaluable. They provide charts, radar/AIS overlays, and all of the other boat data as so desired. So perfect for watching ships, confirming visuals, picking up unlit buoys, making night entrances into harbours with tidal crossflows, etc. Even entering an unfamiliar marina in the thick of night!

These are so easy to slot into modern networks that I really don't see why one can't have one's cake and eat it in this case?

If that's not a banned expression these days :ambivalence:

 

[Seajet]

Some people seem to have forgottten sailing is supposed to be an enjoyable recreational pastime, not an exam trying to get yotmaster or CPL pilot with a competition for proficiency on as many instruments as possible !

Get experienced inshore first - then use your wallet.

 

[LadyInBed]

Some people seem to have forgottten sailing is supposed to be an enjoyable recreational pastime, not an exam trying to get yotmaster or CPL pilot with a competition for proficiency on as many instruments as possible !

Get experienced inshore first - then use your wallet.

I think this discussion might also have been had 100 years ago but with regards to fitting and maintaining an engine!

 

[john_morris_uk]

Some people seem to have forgottten sailing is supposed to be an enjoyable recreational pastime, not an exam trying to get yotmaster or CPL pilot with a competition for proficiency on as many instruments as possible !

Get experienced inshore first - then use your wallet.

I actually agree with you. Whilst I hate long periods stuck at the wheel and rejoice that we have a rather good autopilot (and a soon to be installed Hydrovane) I spend a lot of my time tweaking and wondering whether the sail shape is OK or just marvelling at the ocean and the sky and all things in between. I REALLY enjoy long ocean crossings for their sheer pleasure of sailing a boat across/round bits of our planet. The routine and the sailing and the freshening the nip on lines and watching for chafe and all the things that day sailing doesn't demand you to do. The regular reviewing of sail plan with the watching for squalls etc etc

In the company of a couple of forum members I had a really good sail across the channel a few weeks ago. We didn't spend our time watching the instruments. Occasionally we looked at the plotter by the chart table and decided that all the ships were missing us by miles and carried on sailing.

I'm not arguing against having an MFD in the cockpit. If I could afford it and could think of a way of fitting a decent sized one to the binnacle (the only ones worth having are BIG in my humble opinion) then I'd probably fit one tomorrow. I'll freely admit that I often use my iPhone with Navionics for pilotage (but I'll have the chart open on the chart table and I'll have had a look in the pilot book first as well...). But I like having the instruments and the radar at the chat=rt table. Perhaps I'm just old fashioned but there's a few caveats...

I'm not sure of the ability of some of all MFD's to be seen in bright sunlight and I think security is an issue and I worry about beginners to sailing, driving their boats round the screen as if it's a computer game. They stand a good chance of NEVER learning any proper navigation and if the MFD/GPS goes pointy things with red noses up then they're stuffed.

 

[lw395]

...
I'm not sure of the ability of some of all MFD's to be seen in bright sunlight and I think security is an issue and I worry about beginners to sailing, driving their boats round the screen as if it's a computer game. They stand a good chance of NEVER learning any proper navigation and if the MFD/GPS goes pointy things with red noses up then they're stuffed.

I don't think beginners are the worst.
Beginners tend to have open minds.
There is a generation of boat users out there who've been steering around the screen most of this century.

Seems to me that looking at a plotter in the cockpit is little better than looking at a phone, a little screen with very few pixels compared to a paper chart. Looking at stuff on a phone is like peeping through a letterbox to people like me who've got used to having a couple of HD screens for work.

 

[Rob Rover]

FWIW I'm not convinced about AIS in a small boat. However approaching the Athens TSS a coupe of weeks ago I was chuffed to be able to use the MarineTraffic app to discover that that mother of all tankers steaming over the horizon was only going at 9 knots so we had plenty of time to cross.

 

[Ohlin Karcher]

FWIW I'm not convinced about AIS in a small boat. However approaching the Athens TSS a coupe of weeks ago I was chuffed to be able to use the MarineTraffic app to discover that that mother of all tankers steaming over the horizon was only going at 9 knots so we had plenty of time to cross.

What's the delay on the MarineTraffic in your experience? I have been watching ships on the Tyne and comparing their actions to the app, and there seems to be very little delay. I thought there used to be more maybe it's improved?
I have always scorned using AIS apps on a mobile or ipad, but after these recent comparisons, I'm having a re-think.

 

[johnalison]

What's the delay on the MarineTraffic in your experience? I have been watching ships on the Tyne and comparing their actions to the app, and there seems to be very little delay. I thought there used to be more maybe it's improved?
I have always scorned using AIS apps on a mobile or ipad, but after these recent comparisons, I'm having a re-think.

I have Marine Traffic available at home but regard it as far too unreliable to even consider relying on it on a boat. If I were on a boat within mobile range of shore and there was nothing else to hand, then I could possibly use it if the need arose, but I would never set out with this in mind. All I can say to Rob Rover is that he should try a proper integrated AIS in a small boat in a busy area, when he will find it to be a great reassurance. Whether he would consider it worth the cost is a different matter and one we all have to face.

 

[Rob Rover]

I use it in the Bristol Channel regularly and as I said, I used it in Athens a couple of weeks ago. I haven't noticed a delay being a problem at all. Accurately knowing where a big boat is, how fast it's going and where it's headed certainly contribute to informed decision making.

 

[GHA]

I use it in the Bristol Channel regularly and as I said, I used it in Athens a couple of weeks ago. I haven't noticed a delay being a problem at all. Accurately knowing where a big boat is, how fast it's going and where it's headed certainly contribute to informed decision making.

Running both ais and web ais on opencpn on the thamesa while ago there could be up to a mile difference between the clipper ferries in the real world and the same vessels in the internet world.
Not much use imho if you keep having to check the age of the report and work out where they might be in the real world.

 

[Ohlin Karcher]

Running both ais and web ais on opencpn on the thamesa while ago there could be up to a mile difference between the clipper ferries in the real world and the same vessels in the internet world.
Not much use imho if you keep having to check the age of the report and work out where they might be in the real world.

That's what I was thinking, will have another look later.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

I use it in the Bristol Channel regularly and as I said, I used it in Athens a couple of weeks ago. I haven't noticed a delay being a problem at all. Accurately knowing where a big boat is, how fast it's going and where it's headed certainly contribute to informed decision making.

Even apart from delay in update from reports, I don't expect to get internet or similar data somewhere off the traffic separation zone by Ushant or whatever. Shipfinder and Marine-traffic amused me once off Avon mouth but if I was really concerned I would call up Bristol VTS. As an AIS engine or enabled radio is so cheap relatively, if you can afford it get the proper kit

 

[Gwylan]

We cross the channel several times a year.
We have an AIS receiver that talks to the SH plotter.

Really does make life a lot more comfortable and takes all the guesswork out of things.

See no real reason for the expense etc of a transceiver - I'm not that anxious for my mates or anyone else to see where I am. Also feel that it is my job to stay out of the big boys way.

On the west coast you can use it to watch lonely southerners trying to find a Waitrose or get a radio check.

 

[Poey50]

Our AIS transceiver went from 'nice to have' to 'VERY nice to have' on a night crossing to Cherbourg last May. It was cold, pitch black and the kind of confused sea that made me and my wife struggle for hours not to puke. A quick glance at the list of AIS targets and their CPAs kept that part of the crossing well under control. A big contrast to the skipper anxiously calling up ships to check on intentions - he called one about 15 times sounding increasingly stressed.

Since having the ability to transmit (10 crossings ago) I haven't yet had to change course to avoid a ship in the Channel. I doubt this is chance alone - like others, I think they get their change of course in first. For this reason alone the ability to transmit seems well worth it.

 

[Deleted member 478]

I'm far too lazy to wade through well over 130 replies, so if this has been mentioned before, tough.

The weakness of AIS is that there is no legal requirement to have it switched on. This is because you and I, plus general shipping don't want to be seen off places like Somalia. The bottom line is that you cannot rely on your AIS to show every vessel in range, so please don't rely on it!

 

[RichardS]

I'm far too lazy to wade through well over 130 replies, so if this has been mentioned before, tough.

The weakness of AIS is that there is no legal requirement to have it switched on. This is because you and I, plus general shipping don't want to be seen off places like Somalia. The bottom line is that you cannot rely on your AIS to show every vessel in range, so please don't rely on it!

No-one has suggested that they rely on AIS and, in practice, I doubt whether anyone does. However, every bit of information you can get about other shipping is helpful, especially at night or in fog. Clearly, you have to know how to interpret the information but that is one of the advantages of AIS .... the information is easy to understand.

Richard

 

[Kukri]

Unless things have changed recently, many NATO warships do not have their AIS set transmitting when under way.

If NATO don’t, I doubt if others do.

 

[dom]

The weakness of AIS is that there is no legal requirement to have it switched on. This is because you and I, plus general shipping don't want to be seen off places like Somalia. The bottom line is that you cannot rely on your AIS to show every vessel in range, so please don't rely on it!

True, except for ships over 300/500 GT, where IMO stipulates:

"Ships fitted with AIS shall maintain AIS in operation at all times except where international agreements, rules or standards provide for the protection of navigational information."

​

E.g. The Red Sea is now controlled by a US led coalition which effectively assumes control.

As for yachts, fishing boats, etc. -- you're absolutely right.