AIS and NMEA data anywhere onboard

MapisM

MapisM

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Did anyone have a chance to try, or heard about, this bit of kit?
On paper, it has some very clever features, and I'm thinking to include it in my Xmas gifts list for Santa... :)
http://www.vespermarine.com/transponders/xb8000-ais-transponder.html
vesper_marine_xb-8000_web.png
 
That is very neat piece of kit. Some engineers have give that some thought integrating the various different rf types into one unit.
 
MapisM said:
Did anyone have a chance to try, or heard about, this bit of kit?
On paper, it has some very clever features, and I'm thinking to include it in my Xmas gifts list for Santa... :)
http://www.vespermarine.com/transponders/xb8000-ais-transponder.html
vesper_marine_xb-8000_web.png
Click to expand...

I have one and use it over wifi using free DroidAIS on my android tablet and free OpenCPN on my laptop.

Wired it up to my VHF masthead antenna using the Vespermarine active splitter. Total job was about 30 minutes.

AIS range in daytime hours is 55 miles, with up to 550 miles at night!

Superb piece of kit and excellent support from Vespermarine.

Richard
 
RichardS said:
I have one and use it...
Click to expand...
Many thanks, that's exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for.
I hope you don't mind a few further questions:

1) did you check if the split antenna usage is affecting the VHF performance somehow?
I can't help thinking that due to the nature of the beast (constant RX+TX of the AIS transponder), the VHF is bound to suffer to some extent.

2) by masthead antenna, I guess you mean of a sailboat?
The ranges you're quoting are amazing anyway, particularly the night one, which beggars belief!
Btw, how did you check that? I mean, you can obviously see how far are the other most distant ships which you can receive, but what about the distance at which other ships can get your position?

3) how do you like DroidAIS? I understand that there's also a free Vesper app, which as I'm told works very well, but i'ts only available for iOS so far...
 
not exactly cheap though at 800euro!

assuming you're using it on a N2K network, you don't really need their antenna (and I bet it wont be cheap)
Curious where can the NMEA sentences be used (over wifi that is, and other than a laptop with OpenCPN)

cheers

V.
 
I'll try and answer the points.

First of all the 55m reception in daylight is consistent although, as you say, that is from an antenna 20m up in the air. The night time range is much larger due to reflection of the ionised belts or something. There is a thread about this on one of the sailboat forums PBO I think. I'm being a bit facetious as this was one particular night a couple of months ago when I was anchored in a bay on Corfu watching dozens of class A freighters and cruise ships steaming across the mid-Mediterranean 300 miles away, The furthest ship I was watching was a freigher anchored in a port in Tunisia and the AIS data said it was 550 miles away with a CPA of 500 miles or something. Completely useless of course!

Whether the daytime range is the same on the transmit side I don't know. If class B transmits at the same strength as class A then I would assume so. However, anything more than 10 or 15 miles or so is fairly academic for collision avoidance purposes and an antenna mounted on top of a mobo should achieve that, although when things are quiet it is interesting identifying ships which are just dots on the horizon.

I have not noticed any difference in VHF receive or transmit but note that the Vespermarine splitter is active, i.e. amplified, and needs a power connection. I believe that a well-constructed active splitter can actually improve VHF performance. Class B AIS only transmits in bursts anyway and when the VHF is in receive or transmit mode the active splitter drops the AIS signal entirely.

The XB8000 broadcasts the AIS data over wifi, NMEA0183 or NMEA2000 or all three and will broadcast incoming NMEA data over wifi although I don't use the NMEA functionality. You don't need an antenna from Vespermarine at all as the wifi antenna is built into the XB8000. You do need a GPS antenna but that comes with the XB8000 anyway.

VM publish the following list of tested apps on Apple and Android which can all use the AIS NMEA wifi stream and there are many more on PC.

http://www.vespermarine.com/xb/apps

Apple is better supported than Android at the moment although the list is growing all the time and a new Android app - AISView - looks interesting although I haven't tried it yet. This is actually a Digital Yacht app but I don't see why it would not work with the XB8000 as the wifi data stream is presumably the same.

DroidAIS, and several of the others, are a radar-type AIS display which I am happy with. Some of them, including DroidAIS will show the AIS data overlaid on a nautical chart but this needs a bit of faffing about and I haven't been that bothered. AISView picks up google earth over 3G for the overlay which should work well as if you are out of range of 3G you are probably 10 miles or so out to sea so there would not be any land on the chart anyway.

The only advantage of the overlay which occurs to me is when you look at the radar display and can see a ship say 5 miles away on a closing course and you can't see it, particularly at night. You then realise that it is on the far side of a island or headland and, unless it can grow wheels, the collision is entirely theoretical!

I hope this is helpful.

Richard
 
Yep, very helpful indeed, many thanks again.

RichardS said:
when the VHF is in receive or transmit mode the active splitter drops the AIS signal entirely.
Click to expand...
I wasn't aware of this, sounds clever.
Though while I can figure that it's easy for the splitter to "sense" a TX coming through the VHF antenna cable, I struggle to understand how it can sense a VHF RX.
I mean, afaik the antenna alone grabs anything which is on air at all time, and it's only up to the VHF unit to decide whether to stay silent or turn the reception on, based on the channel selected and the squelch regulation.
So, I would think that the splitter should be interfaced with the VHF in some more sophisticated manner to sense when RX mode is on, rather than through the antenna cable alone.
But what do I know...? At the end of the day, if it works well, that's all which really matters! :)
 
MapisM, I'm slightly struggling to see the benefits here. Of course, it depends what nav kit you have to begin with but:

1. Its use as a wifi router is limited too much by the 5 leases, so you're going to want another router anyway

2. although it squirts AIS and n2k data over wifi, you still have to have apps that can use that data

3. If I compare it with the big manufacturer wifi systems, they seem to be way better. If I take Garmin as an example because I know and use it, you add about the same cost as this for Garmin's Wifi link and a normal AIS transponder, and with no further £££ charting apps or anything you have way more than this device. You have on your ipad/Android device all the AIS data overlaid on charts instead of on a black "radar-like" screen, and you can tap to get the target ship's data, and you have all the ship's n2k data overlaid on charts, and you have your ship's radar and autopilot on your ipad as well, and radar/chart overlay if you want, and everything. Your ipad becomes another MFD, only it is in your hand. This is way better, but at comparable cost, unless I'm missing something. Of course what I'm saying assumes you already have a modern MFD; if you don't then this device becomes more interesting
 
How does that work, JFM coz I didn't think Garmin made any charting apps for Android (or maybe they dont, and you mean Apple), or does the wifi link some how copy the Garmin vision charts over too (that would be cool).
Bit like you I was wondering what use this was if you didn't already have your base charting system on tablet and this merely flicked the AIS onto it (but still was't sure why I want that if I am not at he helm).
'Cause, my boat is so small I can see the plotter from the swim platform ;)
 
gjgm said:
How does that work, JFM coz I didn't think Garmin made any charting apps for Android (or maybe they dont, and you mean Apple), or does the wifi link some how copy the Garmin vision charts over too (that would be cool).
Bit like you I was wondering what use this was if you didn't already have your base charting system on tablet and this merely flicked the AIS onto it (but still was't sure why I want that if I am not at he helm).
'Cause, my boat is so small I can see the plotter from the swim platform ;)
Click to expand...

Yup, the wifi link copies the Garmin vision charts over to the tablet, sort of - actually it copies the screen image across. There is no charting app that you install into your IOS/Android device here. Instead, you install with Garmin's own little wifi box connected by cable into the Garmin network, then the entire screen of any MFD on your boat is sent by wifi to your iPad or Android device. As you touch the MFD and make it do things, it is repeated simultaneously to the iPad/Android device, and as you do things on the iPad/Android it is repeated simultaneously back to the MFD. Like, the MFD and iPad are identical twins.

So you have full AIS display on charts or anything else (charts, radar, video, autopilot, n2k data) on your ipad/android on demand. If you have an unused MFD (eg one installed at the helm station you are not using) then you have another MFD at the helm station you are using, in the form of your iPad/Android device

It is one of the best gadgets I've ever had. Cost for the "Garmin wifi adapter" is around £160 and if you already have Garmin plotter and ipad/android tablet that's all you need to buy. If you need to buy AIS transponder that's another £500 or whatever they cost these days. But still pretty competitive with MapisM's blue box, and waaaaay more powerful.

I'm only talking Garmin because I know it. The other manufacturers also have similar offerings
 
jfm said:
Yup, the wifi link copies the Garmin vision charts over to the tablet, sort of - actually it copies the screen image across. There is no charting app that you install into your IOS/Android device here. Instead, you install with Garmin's own little wifi box connected by cable into the Garmin network, then the entire screen of any MFD on your boat is sent by wifi to your iPad or Android device. As you touch the MFD and make it do things, it is repeated simultaneously to the iPad/Android device, and as you do things on the iPad/Android it is repeated simultaneously back to the MFD. Like, the MFD and iPad are identical twins.

So you have full AIS display on charts or anything else (charts, radar, video, autopilot, n2k data) on your ipad/android on demand. If you have an unused MFD (eg one installed at the helm station you are not using) then you have another MFD at the helm station you are using, in the form of your iPad/Android device

It is one of the best gadgets I've ever had. Cost for the "Garmin wifi adapter" is around £160 and if you already have Garmin plotter and ipad/android tablet that's all you need to buy. If you need to buy AIS transponder that's another £500 or whatever they cost these days. But still pretty competitive with MapisM's blue box, and waaaaay more powerful.

I'm only talking Garmin because I know it. The other manufacturers also have similar offerings
Click to expand...
Ok thanks; I will have a look. I guess that is partly why they didn't bother with independent chart app (and saves buying that !).
As you say, if you have the other gear, for £160 odd, it seems very good.
 
jfm said:
Of course what I'm saying assumes you already have a modern MFD; if you don't then this device becomes more interesting
Click to expand...
LOL, in fact I've got Furuno CRT (!) sounder and radar, and I recently replaced the Geonav B&W plotter with the slightly more modern colour version of the same thing, only because BartW had one on BA which he wasn't using anymore (thanks again B!). Go figure...
I'm not even telling to my boat that MFDs exist, she might want one as a birthday gift! :D

Though actually, I think that what you are suggesting only works with the very latest generation of MFDs, which a) are capable to broadcast wirelessly also their own screens, and b) can be driven by touch screen commands.
I mean, aside from my vintage stuff, I can think of a few forumite boats which have MFDs (and no AIS transponder), but couldn't use a solution like the one you are envisaging: BartW with his Furuno MFDs, Deleted User and Scubaman with Raymarine. And also your previous Raymarine boats didn't comply at least with a) above, unless I'm mistaken?

Having said that, yes, I agree that with your current Garmin setup the wi-fi interface makes much more sense than this thing.
Well, unless you put some value in having a fully redundant/independent collision avoidance system, maybe.
Also because if a "normal" transponder cost 500 quids as you said (I didn't check), the cost difference is not that much...
 
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I appreciate that you are actually using it, but the Garmin description implies you need their app (£), it only works on Apple (because you need the app!), and basically all it does is gives you a mirror of the MFD,bit like a slave screen.No functionality.
Which brings me to another Q. I know all you guys in the Med must have the bimini up to save your roasting pates, but outside of shade, can anyone actually read a tablet outside? In UK I can't see a damn thing on them , rendering this whole discussion somewhat useless to me !
 
gjgm said:
the Garmin description implies you need their app (£), it only works on Apple (because you need the app!), and basically all it does is gives you a mirror of the MFD,bit like a slave screen.No functionality
Click to expand...
I would think that the Garmin app either comes free with the wifi interface, or has a negligible cost, but jfm surely knows better.
Otoh, I understand that the iPad actually does NOT act just as a slave screen: it becomes a fully functional MFD instead, because the Garmin MFDs we are talking about can be fully controlled by touch screen commands.
Which means that by replicating their screen (and allowing a two-ways communication between the app and the wireless interface, which the thing indeed does), you can do from the iPad pretty much anything, as if you were on any other MFD.

Frankly speaking, imho such feature is more useful for impressing boat show visitors than anything else, but there's one nice possibility I can think of, and it's keeping the iPad next to your bed while anchored, maybe in a somewhat windy night.
Being able to check anything (radar/plotter/sounder) from there is surely a prime example of first world problem, but it does have a point. :)
 
MapisM said:
LOLI think that what you are suggesting only works with the very latest generation of MFDs, which a) are capable to broadcast wirelessly also their own screens, and b) can be driven by touch screen commands..
Click to expand...
Yup, that's basically right, so what I was suggesting is only applicable on some boats- all agreed. It may be splitting hairs but it is backward compatible to all Garmin touch screens back to 7000 and 5000 series. The MFD itself does not wireless "transmit" its screen; instead, the wifi device connects to and takes inforamtion from the ethernet network that the MFDs use to share information between themselves, hence the backward compatibility for 5 years or so

gjgm said:
I appreciate that you are actually using it, but the Garmin description implies you need their app (£), it only works on Apple (because you need the app!), and basically all it does is gives you a mirror of the MFD,bit like a slave screen.No functionality.
Which brings me to another Q. I know all you guys in the Med must have the bimini up to save your roasting pates, but outside of shade, can anyone actually read a tablet outside? In UK I can't see a damn thing on them , rendering this whole discussion somewhat useless to me !
Click to expand...

MapisM is right. It is not a slave and there is no "master-slave" relationship in the system. It is a carbon copy of a fully functional MFD; a real time identical twin of the MFD. I have 6 MFDs and the iPad can show and control/input to any of the 6 on demand. When you enter a command on the iPad, on a screen that is a copy of the MFD screen, that command is entered on the MFD also, in real time. Full functionality from the iPad (including +/- 1 deg and 10 deg steering)

The app is FREE(Garmin Helm) and comes in IOS and Android

You are right that an iPad screen isn't as bright as a good marine MFD. That is the only significant limitation, but it's not a major failing really and the ipad is easily viewed under the bimini shade or at the inside helm or bedside at night
 
MapisM said:
I understand that the iPad actually does NOT act just as a slave screen: it becomes a fully functional MFD instead, because the Garmin MFDs we are talking about can be fully controlled by touch screen commands.
Which means that by replicating their screen (and allowing a two-ways communication between the app and the wireless interface, which the thing indeed does), you can do from the iPad pretty much anything, as if you were on any other MFD.
Click to expand...
Exactly correct. That's why it is such a good gizmo and why I keep going on about how good it is
 
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