aicon 52 help?

[jfm]

well the boker just confirmed these boats will be fully prepared and ready to sail, so i guess any faults have to be rectified by them.

Don't believe a word of that. Broker has no facilities to prepare the boat. Once you've bought the boat, it's your resp to fix everything and you should assume it will come as per the pics ie neat interior but needs a polish up outside and the busted flybridge windscreen fixing etc

Anyway, looks very good in the pics. The HSB2 (flash gordon) electronics date it to 2004. It's weird that it has been a "demonstrator" for that time - boat builders don't ever build demonstrators and the work "demonstrator" is code for a boat they just can't sell. All very strange, but the interior condition does indeed suggest it hasn't been used

As jimmy says, time to go and look if you like the deal. But as Kcrane says, a sq58 might be cheaper and is certainly a lot nicer. Check out sq58 pics (some of which are my old boat) on www.wavecharter.com

 

[MapisM]

a sq58 might be cheaper

J, if you kmow of a cheaper Sq58 in comparable conditions, I might have someone interested.

 

[jfm]

J, if you kmow of a cheaper Sq58 in comparable conditions, I might have someone interested.

I meant cheaper in the kcrane definition - ie the price has flatlined

Afaik the very cheapest sq58 would be around £330k, for a 2002 or maybe a2003. A 2004 is considerably nicer due to upgrades that year, and £375k

 

[squadron]

You will have to factor in about £5k for modest 3m RIB tender + 15hp o/b and I can't see any mention of a blackwater holding tank which will cost you about £6k to install. When the broker says that the boat will be serviced and supplied in full working order, are they offering any kind of warranty?

thanks for that mike , i will e-mail with those questions today , as always your advice in invaluable and gives me confidence to at least see if i can make this work.

thanks david

 

[squadron]

Aicon gel coat is ok, cream colored like Ferrettis. Ready and prepared by a bank at that price is very unusual. Guess they will give you one coat of antifoul. Early models before 2006 was less shiny, then they added a grade of brightness to those build after that year. I visited Aicon Yard in August 2007, and the yard was busy at the time preparing about a dozen yachts. very unusual in August to see this anywer.
Damn how things change!

If you keep it in Sicily and on that coast I suggest you rest it at Porto Rosa, you get all stuff there. But I dont know much the Palermo, West coast area. The Cat Sicily engine dealer is regarded by many as one of the best. This is following my talk with captains a few years ago, and some Maltese owners who actually do major server in the island.
In my experience Cat is a better engine to Volvo, in any HP more so the more powerful it is. Better electronics and better torque. Early C12 engines and the 669hp though did have an after cooler problem, most of them ractified under warranty. At less then 100 hours and being 2004 there first production year this engine would have at 99% not done it.

Complaining for some fenders and ropes and buying a 52 ft, I guess you should not buy a boat. Buying a fender and rope and 50 EUROS each average will be your least of expenses.
Electronics from 2004 will be ok. They want be your latest gizmos but if they work should be fine.
Think that globally speaking an Aicon 52 should sell at around at 300k, asking 400. I had a cliente in 2006 who offered 500k for one of these from Aicon back in 2005 and the yard said no for one with 120 engine hours.
I remember they had 2 and wanted to get rid of the one with most engine hours.

Aicon is a good looking boat, and the reputation of its designer Fulvio De Simoni who has one of the longest CVs is not there for nothing. He also designs Pershing, and the success of the 56 (100 units) is not there for nothing!

hi william , sorry didnt mean to complain about fenders it was just something which was missing which is usually included when looking at other boats , i didnt know they were cheap items so no i am not worried by the lack of them.
thanks for the invaluble info on the cat engines , as always your comments are really appreciated .

cheers david

 

[squadron]

Boats often don't look that nice in photos taken in daylight, but actually the cabinetry looks pretty good (condition and construction), and the beige leather is unoffensive. I viewed an Aicon 56 a few years back, and the general build quality and cabinetry was good on that, so its no surprise that this one is OK. If it has been stored undercover then gel coat should be OK, and even if it hasn't a good cut and polish should bring it up.

I share Deleted User's concern though, what has it been doing. If it's a demo boat why store it undercover? A demo boat is for demos, which means it has to be in the water. If it has been in the water and just used occasionally that can be worse than regular use and maintenance.

The price does seem keen but don't forget:

it's not from one of the prime manufacturers
the builder seems to have gone bust
it's 8 years old, with an uncertain service history
it's a lot smaller than a Sq58
the layout is poor, and the flybridge is just plain bad
the model was unpopular even when new
it hasn't sold in 8 years!
It's an ex-VAT price, and there's 6% commssion to pay

Maybe £150k isn't such a bargain?

hi nick , i know there are so many strange things about this boat , and thats probably one of the reasons they havent sold , there are 3 of them . putting that aside it doesnt mean the boat is bad and i think previously they were expensive , now they are repo boats and it must be the bank or reciever selling them. dont forget they are still at aicon boatyard so maybe the bank still have staff there to finish these boats .

i dont know what it is about this deal but the more i discover the more i feel a sense that i could have found a little gem . time will tell i guess.

thanks david

 

[vas]

i dont know what it is about this deal but the more i discover the more i feel a sense that i could have found a little gem . time will tell i guess.

thanks david

David,

I've not ever set my eyes on one of them aicons, just saw the pics, from my time in this forum I do value v.much the opinion of the members that've commented on this craft (and you're really lucky as I think all of them have made smart helpful points) and I've also learnt that it's very rarely you get a great bargain.
A bargain waiting for you 6-7years is OTT imho.
Don't kid yourself, by all means go and have a look, but I'd go there AFTER I've seen a few other craft and definitely a couple of sq58 that you're really after. Else you may suffer the love on first sight due to lack of comparison and end up with something you'll soon regret and realise why this bargain was indeed waiting for you as most likely there wont be any interest when you try to sell on...

I'd simply organise a week trip from the far east to a reputable Fairline dealer in the UK (no idea who, but I'm sure ppl will tell you) and on the way back to the east, drop by and have a look at this aicon

If you do think it's temping, go ahead and of course start a new thread on living with a 8yo new craft. it will be invaluable experience for all in here!

cheers

Vassilis

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

It's an ex-VAT price, and there's 6% commssion to pay

Maybe £150k isn't such a bargain?

Yes I agree with that. It does very much depend on what actual price can be negotiated and I'm assuming that with 3 to sell and a disinterested bank selling them, they'll take an offer. I talk to Med brokers occasionally and nobody says that the market for 50ft F/B boats is exactly buoyant at the moment and given the Eurozone crisis, it isn't going to get better any time soon. IMHO, if the boat can be bought for less than £150k including all costs, then it may indeed be a bit of a bargain but if the price is firm and there are all sorts of other costs such as brokers commission+VAT, notarising title documents and any other costs associated with buying these boats, I'd walk away

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Aicon cabinentry is among the best around, as the company actually started as high profile furniture maker in the nineties. They had sub-contracts for Azimut in that period, and took also some important contract for some of the Viareggio builders, Antago being one of them (this yard they where very near to buy in 2000 before Aicon Yachts actually became existant). In fact the Aicon 56 I saw its model in Genoa as Antago 54. First Aicon 56 was launched in 2001.
BTW 2003's Fairline 58 Squadron, is selling cheaper to that. I know a couple which went for 300k EUROS in the last year or so, and one about two months ago which sold for 250k. There was also a 2004 advertised for 330k again in EUROS about 2 months ago. BTW at this price I can work depreciation in KCrane method, and actually the returns are the same if not better for the Aicon with the difference that the 58 Squadron would be easier to sell, altough at the moment not many 50 fts plus are easy to sell.

JFM FYI a broker if in contract that boat is ready to be prepared which can mean a lot of things, but I do understand it is a coat of antifouling, has to do it and he still can sub contract other people to do it.
Even though I am not Essex (to name some1 you are familiar with), I have sold prepared yachts sometimes doing the job myself, other times sub-contracting people.

When I bought my current boat in 2009 the owner told me that he will prepare for me and he did, and the antifouling was actually given in front of me to my specification by the yard where the boat was resting in Sardegna.

 

[squadron]

David,

I've not ever set my eyes on one of them aicons, just saw the pics, from my time in this forum I do value v.much the opinion of the members that've commented on this craft (and you're really lucky as I think all of them have made smart helpful points) and I've also learnt that it's very rarely you get a great bargain.
A bargain waiting for you 6-7years is OTT imho.
Don't kid yourself, by all means go and have a look, but I'd go there AFTER I've seen a few other craft and definitely a couple of sq58 that you're really after. Else you may suffer the love on first sight due to lack of comparison and end up with something you'll soon regret and realise why this bargain was indeed waiting for you as most likely there wont be any interest when you try to sell on...

I'd simply organise a week trip from the far east to a reputable Fairline dealer in the UK (no idea who, but I'm sure ppl will tell you) and on the way back to the east, drop by and have a look at this aicon

If you do think it's temping, go ahead and of course start a new thread on living with a 8yo new craft. it will be invaluable experience for all in here!

cheers

Vassilis

hi vassilis, thats what i intend doing , only not to the uk because fairlines especially sq58s seem to be much more expensive in the uk , i will look for some reputable dealers in the med , i guess i will rely on other forum members to guide me as to which sites i should visit .

thanks david.

 

[Nick_H]

.. not to the uk because fairlines especially sq58s seem to be much more expensive in the uk

Yeh, i've noticed a flood of cheap second hand boats of all makes offered for sale in Italy over the last few months, whereas even a year ago asking prices were generally a fair bit higher in Italy than UK.

Obviously exchange rates account for some of it, but only 10% at most, so I guess the euro crisis and the new tax (or the threat of it, when does it start?) must be encouraging owners to get rid of boats that aren't getting enough use, and they're having to price them to sell?

 

[squadron]

Yeh, i've noticed a flood of cheap second hand boats of all makes offered for sale in Italy over the last few months, whereas even a year ago asking prices were generally a fair bit higher in Italy than UK.

Obviously exchange rates account for some of it, but only 10% at most, so I guess the euro crisis and the new tax (or the threat of it, when does it start?) must be encouraging owners to get rid of boats that aren't getting enough use, and they're having to price them to sell?

eh? new tax , please tell me more nick.

 

[Nick_H]

eh? new tax , please tell me more nick.

Doesn't affect you. Italy is introducing a tax for Italian nationals who use their boats in Italian waters. It was a bit of thread drift, and I was just questioning whether this was the reason that prices for used boats in Italy have dropped quite significantly in a short space of time.

 

[squadron]

Doesn't affect you. Italy is introducing a tax for Italian nationals who use their boats in Italian waters. It was a bit of thread drift, and I was just questioning whether this was the reason that prices for used boats in Italy have dropped quite significantly in a short space of time.

ok, you had me going for a minute there nick .

thanks

 

[squadron]

so just to let you guys know after many days of talking to the broker the final price of the aicon 52 is .200.000 euro, apparently according to him they are perfect and the bank will not accept offers .

in the end the broker was quite rude ,so i dont think i will ever approach this particular one again. it seems strange because most banks in this situation i would think would at least consider all offers .i thought brokers had a duty to forward all offers to the client irrespective of whether they are good or not , just like estate agents .

ah well the search continues.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

so just to let you guys know after many days of talking to the broker the final price of the aicon 52 is .200.000 euro, apparently according to him they are perfect and the bank will not accept offers .

It doesn't surprise me. I have often seen banks act like this with other types of machinery. The employees of the bank do not want to be seen to be selling something at what their bosses might think is too low a value, at least in the beginning. In a few months, they will get fed up and either take offers or put the boats in an auction

 

[squadron]

It doesn't surprise me. I have often seen banks act like this with other types of machinery. The employees of the bank do not want to be seen to be selling something at what their bosses might think is too low a value, at least in the beginning. In a few months, they will get fed up and either take offers or put the boats in an auction

i think your right , sometimes your first offer is your only one , and i only wanted to pay a price that would reflect the obvious risk that i would be taking.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

I still think that at 200k EU and only 50 engine hours the Aicon 52 is a steal. We are talking here for machinery of the boat which is brand new, and a hardly used boat.
If the Aicon 52 passes a full survey, and all is in working order there is no risk here, you are just buying a hardly used, new boat for 30% of its new market price only because it has a 2004 date.

Then in anything is a risk, but when one is saving 60 - 70% on market value well it can be taken.

The bank put a minimum price on sale, they will see how it goes and after decide on this. The broker IMO was not rude, when one keeps just talking on price, and puts the boat in second division, and never comes to see it then IMO the client is just waisting his my time. You can do 100 phone calls but give me a person who makes only a few and comes to visit anytime.
I am saying all this because I was in both side of the fences, and know how thing works.

Then if you don't like the lines, the cream color gel coat, or the semi-matt laquered furniture etc etc I'd suggest not to go for the Aicon even if it is for free. Regardless of purchase price a 50-60 feet boat will always need around 50k a year to keep in prime condition.

 

[squadron]

I still think that at 200k EU and only 50 engine hours the Aicon 52 is a steal. We are talking here for machinery of the boat which is brand new, and a hardly used boat.
If the Aicon 52 passes a full survey, and all is in working order there is no risk here, you are just buying a hardly used, new boat for 30% of its new market price only because it has a 2004 date.

Then in anything is a risk, but when one is saving 60 - 70% on market value well it can be taken.

The bank put a minimum price on sale, they will see how it goes and after decide on this. The broker IMO was not rude, when one keeps just talking on price, and puts the boat in second division, and never comes to see it then IMO the client is just waisting his my time. You can do 100 phone calls but give me a person who makes only a few and comes to visit anytime.
I am saying all this because I was in both side of the fences, and know how thing works.

Then if you don't like the lines, the cream color gel coat, or the semi-matt laquered furniture etc etc I'd suggest not to go for the Aicon even if it is for free. Regardless of purchase price a 50-60 feet boat will always need around 50k a year to keep in prime condition.

i never even made a low offer? i was just trying to assertain from the broker if lower offers would be accepted , just like any normal person would ? dont think there is anything wrong in that?, i also offered him a fixed price commission to broker the deal so that the end price would not effect him(quite generous i think) all the broker would say is "the boat is perfect?" thats not negotiation ? people buy from people they like ,this guy is in my opinon lacking some interpersonal skills , he shouldnt just assume that people are wasting his time.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

If the Aicon 52 passes a full survey, and all is in working order there is no risk here, you are just buying a hardly used, new boat for 30% of its new market price only because it has a 2004 date.

Then in anything is a risk, but when one is saving 60 - 70% on market value well it can be taken.

PYB, I don't think its right to say that squadron would be "saving 60-70% of market value". It may be under used but in the end its a 2004 boat and in the present market, worth no more than the asking price IMHO. You know as well as I do that mid sized F/B boats are not exactly selling well in the Med at present and that situation is not going to get any better given the economic situation in the Eurozone. Squadron is quite right to talk about an offer to the broker. He is in a strong position with cash and he should use that position