aicon 52 help?

Deleted User said:
Be careful with Italian ex leasing boats. I was talking to the UK Ferretti dealer a few weeks ago and he was saying that there are lot of finance repo boats coming onto the market in Italy and the finance cos have very little idea what they are selling and many don't have title documents confirming the chain of ownership.
I have tried the old Aicon Group website address and it is down
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Only seen this now.
M, I don't get what that dealer meant, because:
1) leasing is extremely rare with used boats;
2) with a new boat, the chain of ownership is bound to be very simple, 'cause the bank (which is the real owner) bought from the builder (or dealer), and that's it. So, they must have all documents in their hands.

On top of that, for IT registered boats, a notary act is required to sell them.
I would rather say be careful with non-IT ex leasing boats!
Maybe that Ferretti dealer didn't have any to sell....? :)
 
christianmoore said:
Hi David

All sounds good and should be OK but I would still have the paperwork checked properly to make sure all is in order, maybe even look at using a good marine lawyer to make sure of it, could be the best few quid you spend!!! I hope you don't mind me saying as I am not trying to put you off, but paperwork is one of the biggest problems for brokers when selling a used boat. If you want to have a chat about it I am happy to give some advice. Basics are: builders certificate in name of dealer, bill of sale from dealer to first owner ( should be you in this case), invoice showing tax paid (if applicable), CE certification, RCD compliance, transcript of registry if boat registered to make sure no outstanding debts or mortgages, confirmation that the boat is free of encumbrances! Proof of service history ( even though boat is effectively new, it should still have been maintained properly as it was built a few years ago).

Good luck with whatever you do.
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thanks christian, who needs a marine lawyer when i have you guys on my side . joking aside though i will of course do everthing properly.

thanks david
 
kcrane said:
I'm not trying to put you off either and I can see your logic, effectively new boat, lower than normal outlay, might not be the perfect design but won't be terrible (especially versus any other boat at around 60ft if you started by saying that your budget is £150k).

It is a fairly regular discussion on this forum - do I buy something older/smaller/cheaper than I really want and see how it goes, upgrading later? Alternative if to dive in and buy what you think is the right boat and avoid the time, expense and effort of changing later. There are pros and cons either way and there isn't a blanket answer to fit all circumstances.

I'll repeat my earlier comment though, the cost of the boat isn't the outlay of capital (£150k versus £400k) - the cost is the depreciation plus the cost of money. If you have the cash then the cost of money isn't high, so it comes down to depreciation and the may not be much in that between the Aicon and Fairline.
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i cant even guess what the aicon would be worth in two years time. 2004 boat 200 hours maybe? still worth 150k? it might just be depreciation proof .
but i am a realist and know if i want to sell it quickly it will of course be less than i paid .

thanks david
 
squadron said:
i cant even guess what the aicon would be worth in two years time. 2004 boat 200 hours maybe? still worth 150k? it might just be depreciation proof .
but i am a realist and know if i want to sell it quickly it will of course be less than i paid .

thanks david
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There again it might be worth only 100k or even less, if you were trying to shift it quickly. Would you be ok with taking a 50k haircut? Kcrane's point about spending more to buy a boat that will depreciate less is a good one. Best of luck with whatever you decide.

Cheers
Jimmy
 
jimmy_the_builder said:
There again it might be worth only 100k or even less, if you were trying to shift it quickly. Would you be ok with taking a 50k haircut? Kcrane's point about spending more to buy a boat that will depreciate less is a good one. Best of luck with whatever you decide.

Cheers
Jimmy
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i know jimmy , but where can you find a 53 ft 2004 boat with 21hours for 150k, just seems like you could make some money on them . anyway i have just recieved pictures and spec from the broker , i would appreciate you looking at them and giving an honest oppinion, if i can work out how to post them on here.
the pics make them look a bit grim , 8 years of dust i suspect.

thanks david
 
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squadron said:
i know jimmy , but where can you find a 53 ft 2004 boat with 21hours for 150k, just seems like you could make some money on them . anyway i have just recieved pictures and spec from the broker , i would appreciate you looking at them and giving an honest oppinion, if i can work out how to post them on here.
the pics make them look a bit grim , 8 years of dust i suspect.

thanks david
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If you could make money from it - then surely the boat would have sold by now?

Upload your pics to photobucket, and then link from here. What format is the spec in - pdf?

Cheers
Jimmy
 
I believe Boat Showrooms of London were dealers for a few years and not sure if they sold any but this may and I say may be one of theirs, may be a quick call to their Shepperton Office?
 
aicon 52 specs

ok here is the spec , photos in a minute when i can figure out how to post them as the files are too large.


AICON 52

Shipyard Aicon Yacht

"Stenmagg III"

Construction Site: Shipyard Aicon Yacht (As of bankruptcy)

Model: Aicon 52

Project: Construction

Year built: 2004

Varus / registration: 26/06/2004

Unit Type: IMB. A motor

Material of Construction: Fiberglass

Title: Stenmagg III

Flag: Italian

Minimum crew (ITA): 1

Number of persons: 12

Imbarcabile Maximum weight: 1020Kg

Deadline: 06/23/2012

EC Project category: B

Engine: N ° 2 x Caterpillar C12 700 Fingers (522kWx2)

Transmission: Line shaft

Horse Power: 2x-hp

Power: Diesel

DATA (catalogs / brochures / license)

LH = 16.04m, 4.58m Bh = T hm = 1.05 = 20000kg unladen Water: Lt-Fuel: Lt-

Gangway: Yes

The ladder

Outdoor Kitchen: Grill 220V

Engine 1

Engine type: Inboard

Cooling: Indirect

Year: 2003

Engine Hours: 21 h

Engine 2

Engine type: Inboard

Cooling: Indirect

Year: 2003

Engine Hours: 21h

POWER PLANT:

Embarkation position, vent, supply.: Under

Terminal bleed: In accordance

Fuel filter: Racor type 2

Check valve: Yes

ANCHOR AND LOCKERS:

State lockers: Poor

Chain Status: 70 m 10 mm

Yet: Bruce 25Kg

Model windlass: Lofrans

INTERIOR:

Arrangement: 1 double forward cabin, 2 cabins 2 single beds, 2 toilets,

crew cabin

Type of wood: Cherry

State WC: Electric-working

ELECTRICAL SYSTEM:

Voltage: 12V DC (services)

Shore power inlet: 16A 220V

Voltage: 220V

Generator: Mase IS 12

Hours: 35h

GPS / Plotter / Radar: 1 x +1 x Rc RL 70 Pathfinder 631

VHF: Rs 8200

Pilot: ST 6001

1. Stereo

2. Bow

3. Air conditioning / heating



Sincerely
 
You're probably at the limit of what you can usefully decide about this without actually going to see it. So, I'd go and see it, or get someone to do so on your behalf. If you're serious about this boat then it's probably time to start spending some money on a professional who can tell you what state the boat (and it's paperwork) are in.

Cheers
Jimmy
 
jimmy_the_builder said:
You're probably at the limit of what you can usefully decide about this without actually going to see it. So, I'd go and see it, or get someone to do so on your behalf. If you're serious about this boat then it's probably time to start spending some money on a professional who can tell you what state the boat (and it's paperwork) are in.

Cheers
Jimmy
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yes i know , what did you think of the spec?,all 3 of them seem to have everything , no tender or fenders though. maybe i can buy one get 2 free haha.

thanks david
 
squadron said:
yes i know , what did you think of the spec?,all 3 of them seem to have everything , no tender or fenders though. maybe i can buy one get 2 free haha.

thanks david
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I think this is where you need someone to assist you - in particular, you need someone who knows these boats, and as you can tell there's nobody on the forum that's got one, and the only person with a bit of knowledge is PYB. Without a decent bit of first hand experience it's hard to say for example if these engines are good for this boat; although I daresay someone will be able to tell you if the C12's are a good engine or not. I've not heard of the generator manufacturer; it doesn't talk about aircon (or did I miss that) or the manufacturer of the passerelle. The electronics are all ancient. If the boats been sitting around for years then what works, and what doesn't? I really don't think you can do this from your desk, you need to get on the plane, so to speak.

Cheers
Jimmy
 
jimmy_the_builder said:
I think this is where you need someone to assist you - in particular, you need someone who knows these boats, and as you can tell there's nobody on the forum that's got one, and the only person with a bit of knowledge is PYB. Without a decent bit of first hand experience it's hard to say for example if these engines are good for this boat; although I daresay someone will be able to tell you if the C12's are a good engine or not. I've not heard of the generator manufacturer; it doesn't talk about aircon (or did I miss that) or the manufacturer of the passerelle. The electronics are all ancient. If the boats been sitting around for years then what works, and what doesn't? I really don't think you can do this from your desk, you need to get on the plane, so to speak.

Cheers
Jimmy
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yes heating and cooling, i have asked the broker if theses boats will be fully prepared or sold as seen., as for the electronics i guess if they are not up to the job then replacing them could be quite expensive .

anyway thanks jimmy
 
well the boker just confirmed these boats will be fully prepared and ready to sail, so i guess any faults have to be rectified by them.
 
squadron said:
well the boker just confirmed these boats will be fully prepared and ready to sail, so i guess any faults have to be rectified by them.
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I don't understand what this boat has been doing in the last 9 years? 21 hours on the engines in 9 yrs is ridiculous. Are those hours correct? What does the broker say about it's history? You definitely need a franchised Caterpillar dealer to do a full test under load on them and prepare a detailed report. Any Cat dealer will do this. Any engine which has sat doing nothing for 9 years, unused and presumably, unserviced, is a potential minefield.
However, if the pictures are recent, the boat does indeed look like brand new and on that basis and if the price is correct, I would say its worth having a look at this boat. I must say that I wasn't expecting the boat to look in as good condition as the pics suggest. The spec is OK and there's nothing major missing. Mase is a well known generator manufacturer and 12kVA is a good size so no prob there. What I would almost guarantee though is that because the boat is so underused, you will experience a lot of component failures in the first year or 2 so base yourself somewhere where there are good maintenance facilities:)
 
You will have to factor in about £5k for modest 3m RIB tender + 15hp o/b and I can't see any mention of a blackwater holding tank which will cost you about £6k to install. When the broker says that the boat will be serviced and supplied in full working order, are they offering any kind of warranty?
 
Aicon gel coat is ok, cream colored like Ferrettis. Ready and prepared by a bank at that price is very unusual. Guess they will give you one coat of antifoul. Early models before 2006 was less shiny, then they added a grade of brightness to those build after that year. I visited Aicon Yard in August 2007, and the yard was busy at the time preparing about a dozen yachts. very unusual in August to see this anywer.
Damn how things change!

If you keep it in Sicily and on that coast I suggest you rest it at Porto Rosa, you get all stuff there. But I dont know much the Palermo, West coast area. The Cat Sicily engine dealer is regarded by many as one of the best. This is following my talk with captains a few years ago, and some Maltese owners who actually do major server in the island.
In my experience Cat is a better engine to Volvo, in any HP more so the more powerful it is. Better electronics and better torque. Early C12 engines and the 669hp though did have an after cooler problem, most of them ractified under warranty. At less then 100 hours and being 2004 there first production year this engine would have at 99% not done it.

Complaining for some fenders and ropes and buying a 52 ft, I guess you should not buy a boat. Buying a fender and rope and 50 EUROS each average will be your least of expenses.
Electronics from 2004 will be ok. They want be your latest gizmos but if they work should be fine.
Think that globally speaking an Aicon 52 should sell at around at 300k, asking 400. I had a cliente in 2006 who offered 500k for one of these from Aicon back in 2005 and the yard said no for one with 120 engine hours.
I remember they had 2 and wanted to get rid of the one with most engine hours.

Aicon is a good looking boat, and the reputation of its designer Fulvio De Simoni who has one of the longest CVs is not there for nothing. He also designs Pershing, and the success of the 56 (100 units) is not there for nothing!
 
squadron said:
as you can see its not pretty
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Boats often don't look that nice in photos taken in daylight, but actually the cabinetry looks pretty good (condition and construction), and the beige leather is unoffensive. I viewed an Aicon 56 a few years back, and the general build quality and cabinetry was good on that, so its no surprise that this one is OK. If it has been stored undercover then gel coat should be OK, and even if it hasn't a good cut and polish should bring it up.

I share Deleted User's concern though, what has it been doing. If it's a demo boat why store it undercover? A demo boat is for demos, which means it has to be in the water. If it has been in the water and just used occasionally that can be worse than regular use and maintenance.

The price does seem keen but don't forget:

it's not from one of the prime manufacturers
the builder seems to have gone bust
it's 8 years old, with an uncertain service history
it's a lot smaller than a Sq58
the layout is poor, and the flybridge is just plain bad
the model was unpopular even when new
it hasn't sold in 8 years!
It's an ex-VAT price, and there's 6% commssion to pay

Maybe £150k isn't such a bargain?
 
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