AGM Battery recomendations

[Nina Lucia]

I have just found this:
https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-130ah-leoch-adventurer-agm-leisure-battery-lagm130/ sounds good?

 

[Nina Lucia]

or this :
https://www.batterymegastore.co.uk/...ure-battery/hankook-xl31-leisure-battery.html

 

[Monique]

Just as an aside... have you considered Lead Crystal batteries?

I chose those (Betta) after much reading. Check that your chargers can deliver 30% of the total installed amperage though.

You can also se a thread on the “Liveaboard Forum” referring to Lead Crystal. They’ve been badly marketed it seems but if their performance reaches 1/3 of their claims, I’ll be a happy puppy. GL

 

[richardbrennan]

Neither the Leoch or the Hankook are true deep cycle if that's what you want. The Hankooks have been highly recommended on this forum and I'll probably go for one when my starter battery needs replacing.

 

[Plevier]

Just as an aside... have you considered Lead Crystal batteries?

I chose those (Betta) after much reading. Check that your chargers can deliver 30% of the total installed amperage though.

You can also se a thread on the “Liveaboard Forum” referring to Lead Crystal. They’ve been badly marketed it seems but if their performance reaches 1/3 of their claims, I’ll be a happy puppy. GL

Tried to look at their website with curiosity having spent some years in the battery industry without hearing of this but my BS filter went up in smoke almost immediately!

 

[Monique]

Tried to look at their website with curiosity having spent some years in the battery industry without hearing of this but my BS filter went up in smoke almost immediately!

Can you be more specific about what made your BS filter go up in smoke? I am quite curious TBH.

 

[pvb]

Just as an aside... have you considered Lead Crystal batteries?

"Lead crystal" batteries are just hype - essentially AGMs at twice the price, with spurious claims. If the technology is anywhere near as good as is claimed, how come none of the major battery manufacturers has adopted it?

 

[Porthandbuoy]

"Lead crystal" batteries are just hype - essentially AGMs at twice the price, with spurious claims. If the technology is anywhere near as good as is claimed, how come none of the major battery manufacturers has adopted it?

Is it hype, or the innate conservatism of users?
I installed two 110 Ah Elecsol batteries in Ladybird seven year ago. Elecsol claimed their batteries were lighter, could be discharged deeper and more often than conventional batteries by virtue of the carbon fibre/lead foam plates.
Elecsol no longer seem to be in existence, but my batteries are still going strong.

 

[GHA]

Thanks for the comments.. Looks like I am on the right track..

There's a lot of info on this site, mostly behind a paywall though. Might be worth twenty quid as a one off to get it. Mostly from a cruising perspective.

AFAIK lifeline are the only AGMs you can equalize, important if you can't ensure a really full charge once a week or less.

https://www.morganscloud.com/2014/01/15/what-battery-type-should-you-buy/

 

[Mistroma]

"Lead crystal" batteries are just hype - essentially AGMs at twice the price, with spurious claims. If the technology is anywhere near as good as is claimed, how come none of the major battery manufacturers has adopted it?

Perhaps it has been patented and others aren't able to use the same technology. I haven't even looked at the manufacturers website yet, I prefer to look for independent evidence first where possible. Not much so far as I only found one document not produced by the manufacturers.

The only mention of an independent assessment was by Wales & West Utilities. Unfortunately, it looks like a media release or management summary and has no technical content.

We wanted to assess the benefits of lead crystal batteries for specific network applications and understand if they provided benefits over of lead acid or NiCAD battery technology

Conclusions weren't exactly a ringing endorsement.

[Next Steps
This research has explored the use of alternative battery technology and has concluded that there were no benefits for our Network. There is no planned implementation phase and we have developed a fuller understanding of the performance of the batteries we use in comparison to emerging technology.

https://www.wwutilities.co.uk/media/2326/lead-crystal-batteries.pdf

 

[Plevier]

Perhaps it has been patented and others aren't able to use the same technology. I haven't even looked at the manufacturers website yet, I prefer to look for independent evidence first where possible. Not much so far as I only found one document not produced by the manufacturers.

The only mention of an independent assessment was by Wales & West Utilities. Unfortunately, it looks like a media release or management summary and has no technical content.

We wanted to assess the benefits of lead crystal batteries for specific network applications and understand if they provided benefits over of lead acid or NiCAD battery technology

Conclusions weren't exactly a ringing endorsement.

[Next Steps
This research has explored the use of alternative battery technology and has concluded that there were no benefits for our Network. There is no planned implementation phase and we have developed a fuller understanding of the performance of the batteries we use in comparison to emerging technology.

https://www.wwutilities.co.uk/media/2326/lead-crystal-batteries.pdf

There is a glaring flaw there showing the writer of the report hasn't got a clue. The "lead-crystal" batteries ARE lead acid batteries, not "alternative technology".

 

[Mistroma]

There is a glaring flaw there showing the writer of the report hasn't got a clue. The "lead-crystal" batteries ARE lead acid batteries, not "alternative technology".

I did say "unfortunately, it looks like a media release or management summary and has no technical content.". Not exactly suprised at the reference to "alternative technology" in view of the likely target audience.

It was the only thing I'd managed to turn up not actually written by the manufacturers. It did state that they had made a comparison with types currently used (e.g. lead acid or NiCad).

Merely pointing out the lack of detailed independent reviews discovered so far.

I'm assuming that the assessment wasn't carried out by the author of the document and the company might even have a decent internal report filed away somewhere.

 

[Monique]

Interesting comments; obviously, I chose Lead Crystal batteries. BETTA appears to be the only manufacturer.

I've been told (perhaps hearsay) they received a large contract from BT to provide back up power in the event of mains & back up generator failure. IF anyone can confirm the BT contract, I'd be interested to know more...

In my opinion, poor marketing is more the culprit..

 

[pvb]

In my opinion, poor marketing is more the culprit..

The marketing must be pretty good if they can persuade people to buy AGM batteries at twice the regular price!

The whole "lead crystal" marketing effort is suspicious though - there are numerous websites with slightly different names, all making ambitious claims, but very few retailers actually offering them. The well-respected RS Components issued a press release 4 years ago, announcing that they had partnered with Betta Batteries to market these "superior" batteries. If you look at the RS website, there's no sign of them, it must have been a short partnership.

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/genera...141107_rs-stocks-betta-lead-crystal-batteries

 

[Plevier]

Can you be more specific about what made your BS filter go up in smoke? I am quite curious TBH.

It would take hours to explain but I'll try and pick up a few points.

Looking at the claims on https://leadcrystalbatteries.com/battery-technology-lead-crystal/

With a handful of Patents developed by our clever Chief Scientist,
It seems to derive from a 1977 patent that has subsequently been assigned a number of times and never really been taken up (US4140589A)

< 5% Sulphuric Acid Electrolyte
Our Patented Electrolyte is almost as secretive as the recipe for Cola or the Colonel’s chicken. With the make up strictly guarded, what we can tell you is that we have succeeded in producing a much safer battery, with a 85%+ reduction in harmful chemicals.
On a weight for weight basis, comparing the amount of concentrated sulphuric acid present before dilution with the total weight of the battery, 5% is about normal

The unique Lead Crystal® battery consists of a number of special features including: a micro porous super absorbent mat (SAM), thick plates cast from high purity lead calcium selenium alloy (which ensures an extended life), and a SiO2 based electrolyte solution. During the charge / discharge cycles the electrolyte solidifies and forms a white crystalline powder.
Absorbent mat is the main feature of AGM batteries.
Lead-calcium-selenium is certainly not unique to them. Lead-calcium-silver is used a lot more.
Gel batteries use sulphuric acid solidified with silica fume, a form of SiO2. I've never heard of the two technologies being mixed before and I can only see downside - I accept I could be wrong.

Do Lead Crystal® batteries sulphate?
Due to the construction and chemical reaction inside a Lead Crystal® battery, sulfation hardly ever occurs. Lead Crystal® batteries contain less sulphuric acid. They do not contain toxins such as cadmium or antimony either
Define hardly ever! Their O&M manual doesn't really support the claim. They don't contain less sulphuric acid (see above). No lead acid battery will contain cadmium. Very few now contain antimony, mainly because of safety regs around using it, but it does have its uses. It's better than calcium for cycle life e.g. T105s use antimony alloy. However you wouldn't use it in a VRLA battery as it gases a bit more than lead calcium or pure lead.

Super Absorbent Mat (SAM)
Our Patented SAM soaks up the electrolyte. Unlike AGM (glass is an insulator), our mat combines with the electrolyte, giving a unique low internal resistance.
You would be in real trouble if the mat was not an insulator, you would get leakge current (self discharge) between the plates. What you want is free circulation of the electrolyte through the separator. BTW the glass mat used in AGMs is not like you probably imagine, it's rather like blotting paper to handle. As for "combines with the electrolyte" - que?

What is the storage capacity of a Lead Crystal® battery?
The Lead Crystal® has an extremely low self-discharge and can be stored for more than two years without any top-up charging prior to use
According to their O&M manual, it will lose 20% charge in a year.

Can Lead Crystal® batteries achieve a 100% Depth of Discharge?
Yes, Lead Crystal® batteries can be discharged in full frequently, even to 0 Volt. This makes Lead Crystal® batteries extremely resilient for deep discharging
I'll eat my hat!

Enough, sorry.

PS I wonder if their super absorbent mat is related to this patent https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2016210225A1/en but it seems rather new. The inventor has a number of patents for various things, I note this one is assigned to Daramic, a big manufacturer of battery separators, but I can't find an AGM separator product on their website.

PPS I should just add that I am not saying these batteries are no good, they may be high quality VRLAs or they may be total carp, I simply don't know. What I deplore is the hype and BS and lack of solid information to justify claims that my experience tells me are unrealistic. Of course I may be wrong, maybe they have discovered the Holy Grail.

 

[Mistroma]

The marketing must be pretty good if they can persuade people to buy AGM batteries at twice the regular price!

The whole "lead crystal" marketing effort is suspicious though - there are numerous websites with slightly different names, all making ambitious claims, but very few retailers actually offering them. The well-respected RS Components issued a press release 4 years ago, announcing that they had partnered with Betta Batteries to market these "superior" batteries. If you look at the RS website, there's no sign of them, it must have been a short partnership.

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/genera...141107_rs-stocks-betta-lead-crystal-batteries

Pretty much what I found, lots of different websites and documents knocking around. Each time I dug a little deeper it would appear to link back to the manufacturer. I'd find an apparently unrelated site but contact email would be sales@ followed by the same domain. I haven't spent a huge amount of time looking but would usually expect to find information from more than one source. Good analysis by Plevier.

The only independent assessment was written by media people. I suspect there was a decent technical assessment underneath and the outcome was pretty much "we'll stick with our existing kit thanks".