Aft mounted anchors/ Boats from Scandinavia

[benjenbav]

Actually, I don't think that would be an issue.
I mean, in theory the spring (assuming as you said to attach it to the chain, forming an equilateral triangle - or at least an isosceles, chain and spring being the two equal sides) should not change the way the boat moves around the anchor.
It's just the direction she's pointing to that is affected - i.e. perpendicular to the anchor, rather than pointing to it with the bow.
But if the wind rotates say 180°, she should still swing together with all other boats, I reckon...

And coming to think of it, by shortening the spring line and letting down some loose chain, it should be possible also to keep the stern rather than the bow pointing towards the anchor - which in some cases could be nice, depending on the landscape and sun orientation.

Next season, I will definitely give it a try! :encouragement:

Actually, it makes me want to get another boat in order to give this a try... On the crowded anchorage issue, I entirely take your point (what was that sign on the door of Plato's Academy: 'Let no one ignorant of geometry enter'?) But my caution was directed only partly at the relative movement of boats and partly at the need to veer out more scope than otherwise in order to make it easy to attach the spring - at least by my method - you may easily find a better method.

If it works some pix would be very much appreciated!

 

[TwoHooter]

Our boat has a stern winch on the swim platform, a Fortress anchor stowed beside it, and a supply of octoplait which I think is meant to be the rode. The previous owner kept the boat at Stockholm so I know why he wanted this kit. But I cannot understand why there isn't a roller or fairlead of some kind to prevent the anchor rode fraying when it runs over the edge of the swim platform. Can anyone enlighten me? If I should have a roller where is the best place to buy (Google hasn't worked for this).

Also, the winch only runs one way, to draw the rode in. No way of running it in reverse to slacken the rode if it ends up in a tangle. Do not ask how I know this.

(BTW the oversized pink fender in the picture is nothing to do with us)

 

[Bouba]

Our boat has a stern winch on the swim platform, a Fortress anchor stowed beside it, and a supply of octoplait which I think is meant to be the rode. The previous owner kept the boat at Stockholm so I know why he wanted this kit. But I cannot understand why there isn't a roller or fairlead of some kind to prevent the anchor rode fraying when it runs over the edge of the swim platform. Can anyone enlighten me? If I should have a roller where is the best place to buy (Google hasn't worked for this).

Also, the winch only runs one way, to draw the rode in. No way of running it in reverse to slacken the rode if it ends up in a tangle. Do not ask how I know this.

(BTW the oversized pink fender in the picture is nothing to do with us)

If you wind the rope on the winch in the opposite direction, would that let it out? Or am I having a pre coffee brain freeze

 

[scubaman]

On sailboats it's common to see the stern anchor stowed somewhere on the bathing platform or attached to rail on a rack and next to it a roll of strap similar to this -> http://www.marinea.fi/ankarolina_5635_liinakela Sorry, I don't know the correct english term for it.

The practice is to deploy the anchor manually, let the strap/rode run out freely and when the bow is tied to the shore, tighten the rode/straighten the boat (which is what the winch is for and the rode could be coming in from many angles). Often if there are other boats around or due to the position of the tree/rock/whatever you are tying the bow to, you need to be able to position the boat correctly using either of the stern quarter cleats. So the rode would only touch the edge of the platform when tightening it but not while moored.

If you'd add a fairlead it would have to be one with an open top so that the rode can easily come off it for tying up to the cleat.

Hope this helps.

 

[MapisM]

I cannot understand why there isn't a roller or fairlead of some kind to prevent the anchor rode fraying when it runs over the edge of the swim platform. Can anyone enlighten me?

I also struggle to understand that.
Maybe he passed the rode through that small cleat on the border of the platform, and from there to the winch? Just a thought.

Anyway, I for one wouldn't want to have that type of cleat in that position - sounds like a bare feet killer, to me.
And for winching in the rode, probably the easier option would be just a s/steel border along the upper corner of the platform, in front of the winch.
The following thingie being a more "solid" alternative (just click on the image to go to the webpage), if you plan to use that anchor a lot.
But also this one ain't the nicer thing to have in a place where you probably want to be walking barefoot sometimes.
Also in this case, to be installed along the platform border in front of the winch, roughly where the small cleat now is.

Ref. the rode tangling upon recovery while the anchor is still pulling, the only way to avoid that is paying attention while using the winch, I'm afraid...

 

[MapisM]

If you wind the rope on the winch in the opposite direction, would that let it out? Or am I having a pre coffee brain freeze

LOL, I' afraid it's rather the latter, Bouba. For two days in a row...!

 

[Bouba]

LOL, I' afraid it's rather the latter, Bouba. For two days in a row...!

If the drum is going clockwise, and the rope is on anti clockwise, will it not feed it out assuming the anchor is providing some tension on the rope. Help me

 

[benjenbav]

Our boat has a stern winch on the swim platform, a Fortress anchor stowed beside it, and a supply of octoplait which I think is meant to be the rode. The previous owner kept the boat at Stockholm so I know why he wanted this kit. But I cannot understand why there isn't a roller or fairlead of some kind to prevent the anchor rode fraying when it runs over the edge of the swim platform. Can anyone enlighten me? If I should have a roller where is the best place to buy (Google hasn't worked for this).

Also, the winch only runs one way, to draw the rode in. No way of running it in reverse to slacken the rode if it ends up in a tangle. Do not ask how I know this.

(BTW the oversized pink fender in the picture is nothing to do with us)

If the transom gate is open would it be possible to take the rode through the (mooring) fairlead on the starboard quarter perhaps?

 

[MapisM]

If the drum is going clockwise, and the rope is on anti clockwise, will it not feed it out assuming the anchor is providing some tension on the rope. Help me

Yep, but it's a maneuver that just doesn't make sense.
To drop the anchor, you can just... ermm... drop it, and attach the rode to a cleat directly.
As far as I can understand, the winch is only meant for the anchor recovery, which is when you can have some tension on the rode, hence the trouble in untangling it, if it catches itself around the drum.
Pretty much the same problem that you can have with mooring winch meant for stern lines...
But glad to be corrected by 2H,if I misunderstood!

 

[Bouba]

Yep, but it's a maneuver that just doesn't make sense.
To drop the anchor, you can just... ermm... drop it, and attach the rode to a cleat directly.
As far as I can understand, the winch is only meant for the anchor recovery, which is when you can have some tension on the rode, hence the trouble in untangling it, if it catches itself around the drum.
Pretty much the same problem that you can have with mooring winch meant for stern lines...
But glad to be corrected by 2H,if I misunderstood!

I also didn't know why it'd be necessary

 

[TwoHooter]

@Scubaman - Thanks for the explanation. When I first saw the winch and anchor I assumed they were for fore-and-aft anchoring (which we expect to do occasionally), and it was some time before I clocked that the boat's time in Stockholm probably explained the set-up. I get the impression that it would be unusual for there to be a lot of strain on the rode when retrieving and therefore not much risk of fraying against the swim platform.

@Mapism - er, no, he didn't use the small cleat, I fitted that myself in the summer, and another on the starboard side. We don't use the swim platform for swimming 'cos it's always been too cold for that but we often use it as a dock for the tender and I got fed up trying to hang on to the swim platform while crew clambered out to tie a line to the stern cleat. The two little cleats I fitted to the platform are perfect for mooring the tender. And we haven't stubbed our toes yet. Thanks for the Osculati suggestion. Looks perfect and not too pricy but it's chromed brass - is that a good idea in a position where it will be washed with sea water all the time we are under way?

The tangle on the winch was when I was trying to use it to haul the boat backwards using a line to a bollard at Padstow - what Mapism said - and it was the wrong angle - line going up in the air instead of downwards. I still do not understand why anyone would ever fit a winch that can only run one way. It's a DC motor - why would you not have a two-way switch?

 

[prv]

I still do not understand why anyone would ever fit a winch that can only run one way. It's a DC motor - why would you not have a two-way switch?

That's a normal winch as used for handling sails on a yacht, not an anchor windlass as such. The drum inherently only turns one way, it has ratchet pawls to prevent it going backwards under any circumstances (very very occasionally these can stick, and with the tons of load on a big sailing boat's jib sheet the result can be a mangled hand or broken arm). To let line out, you unwrap it from the self-tailer on top and then ease it out around the stationary drum as if it were a fixed bollard, safely controlling those tons of force with the great friction.

The drum will freewheel faster than the motor or handle in its normal direction of rotation; you use this to pull in the slack rapidly by hand. Then once the load comes on, you either put the line into the self-tailer or tail by hand, and start driving the winch. If you were to wind the line onto the drum in the wrong direction as someone suggested, it would simply freewheel outwards. You wouldn't be able to winch in nor let out under any sort of control. So don't try that.

The internal mechanism isn't designed to run both ways, especially since it will have originally been designed for use with a handle that provides different gear ratios (in the same direction) depending which way you turn it; the motor will be an afterthought to the fundamental design. But if you did make the drum able to turn both ways, the self-tailer would no longer work - after one backwards turn the line would fall out of the groove and there would be no tension on the drum to stop the line running out. Since you'd then need to do a kind of backwards tailing by hand anyway, there's no point having the drum turning - just ease away round the drum as normal.

All that said, in the last few years a handful of reversible self-tailing electric winches have come on the market -

- note the extra hooky bit on the self-tailer arm, to prevent the line falling out when run backwards as described above. But these are still fairly new and no doubt very expensive, and may not even have existed when your previous owner fitted his stern winch. And really, since you have to stand there to handle the line and anchor anyway (nothing is self-stowing by the looks of it), is it really such a big deal to ease out by hand instead of with a button?

Pete

 

[prv]

If the transom gate is open would it be possible to take the rode through the (mooring) fairlead on the starboard quarter perhaps?

No, because the lead to the winch would be coming downwards at a silly angle and you would get a riding turn instantly. Lines need to come onto a winch from slightly below, or dead level at the very least.

Pete

 

[TwoHooter]

Thanks everyone. It is indeed a yacht self-tailing single-direction-of-rotation winch and I should have realised that because we had these on the yacht we owned briefly before we decided we would prefer a motorboat. And the key thing about that from my point of view is that I don't want to get the line jammed tightly round the winch because in an extreme case I'd have to cut the line. Which (I think) means the line must always come on to the winch from just below the centre of the drum. I don't know why the chap who fitted it didn't have a fairlead or roller to make sure the line always comes up to the winch correctly but I'm pretty sure I want one.

I knew nothing about boating when we started in 2014. I have read a lot of books and done 2 courses but I reckon I have learned just as much useful stuff on these forums.

 

[prv]

the key thing about that from my point of view is that I don't want to get the line jammed tightly round the winch because in an extreme case I'd have to cut the line. Which (I think) means the line must always come on to the winch from just below the centre of the drum.

Yes - that's called a riding turn, and as you say with a heavy load and multiple wraps can be very difficult to clear. On a yacht if you have time you can generally put another piece of line onto the sheet with a rolling hitch and lead that to a second winch to take the load, allowing you to undo the original jam. But here you don't have another winch to do that with (though on the other hand an anchor warp is unlikely to be so heavily loaded).

You're quite right that the way to prevent it is for the line to always lead onto the bottom of the drum from slightly below horizontal. If yours is only used for dragging an anchor warp over the edge of the swim platform then it's probably ok, but if you're going to use it for mooring lines leading upwards then you need a fairlead with a closed top (in ship sizes these are called "Panamas", for lines leading up to the top of the Panama Canal locks).

Pete

 

[Bouba]

Thanks everyone. It is indeed a yacht self-tailing single-direction-of-rotation winch and I should have realised that because we had these on the yacht we owned briefly before we decided we would prefer a motorboat. And the key thing about that from my point of view is that I don't want to get the line jammed tightly round the winch because in an extreme case I'd have to cut the line. Which (I think) means the line must always come on to the winch from just below the centre of the drum. I don't know why the chap who fitted it didn't have a fairlead or roller to make sure the line always comes up to the winch correctly but I'm pretty sure I want one.

I knew nothing about boating when we started in 2014. I have read a lot of books and done 2 courses but I reckon I have learned just as much useful stuff on these forums.

Then I take back my last post. All photos on the forum are coming with a warning that they are pornographic and I'm denied access to them. Any ideas

 

[TwoHooter]

Then I take back my last post. All photos on the forum are coming with a warning that they are pornographic and I'm denied access to them. Any ideas

Just this thread? Or every thread you look at?

 

[Bouba]

Just this thread? Or every thread you look at?

All threads but not all photos, it either directs me to a page that has a adult only warning or the warning is on the post
I'm on my boat now so there is a remote possibility that the port wifi software has censored me, will try again tomorrow at home see what happens

 

[scubaman]

@Scubaman - Thanks for the explanation. When I first saw the winch and anchor I assumed they were for fore-and-aft anchoring (which we expect to do occasionally), and it was some time before I clocked that the boat's time in Stockholm probably explained the set-up. I get the impression that it would be unusual for there to be a lot of strain on the rode when retrieving and therefore not much risk of fraying against the swim platform.

?

Yes, that's correct. Stern anchoring, for obvious reasons, usually takes place in a well sheltered bay or between islands and typically you just let the bow go and gently drift backwards and pick up the slack rode.

 

[Bouba]

All threads but not all photos, it either directs me to a page that has a adult only warning or the warning is on the post
I'm on my boat now so there is a remote possibility that the port wifi software has censored me, will try again tomorrow at home see what happens

Its beginning to make sense. And it might be MapisM's fault
His thread on 'pornography' was the first image that was denied to me. Is it possible that the title caused the port wifi to stop me viewing it