Advice sought for Atlantic / Caribbean cruise

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melandnick

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So here is the plan

Mel and I are off next year

We have 2 years booked as leave and want to head out from the UK around end May next year.

The plan is to head down to the Canaries via France, Spain, Portugal and Madeira and then head across.
So we should be in the Caribbean by mid Jan latest.
It would then be nice to spend as long as poss cruising the Caribbean ( any ideas about avoiding the Hurricanes? ) before heading north and crossing back to Europe via Bermuda and the Azores.

The boat is nearly ready ( well, I reckon another 6 months work and it will be! ) so we feel its time to look at the route in detail.

We would appreciate all advice but especially advice on routing once in the Carib, where to avoid, where to go etc.

Advice on the timeframe ( we only have 2 years ) would be especially welcome.

Thanks a lot in advance.

Mel and Nick
 
Hi Mel and Nick,

We've only done it the once and I am sure lots of others with further experience will provide better advice.
The route you propose is absolutely normal but one common error (us too) is rushing past Brittany to make N Spain and missing lots. So one bit of advice would be to take some time both N and S of Ushant.
Spanish Rias same same. Easy to slip past some lovely places and regret it later.

When you make the Caribbean, you'll need to get south of Trinidad and into the Chesapeak to max your avoidance of most hurricanes from May to November.

So if it is a 24 month trip you might want to consider spenmding the second year summer up the US east coast..........

Otherwise, the windward and leewards are surprisingly close together so sliding up and down and up is not really a chore for anyone.

Good luck - well done - enjoy
JOHN
 
If you plan to return after two years, I would maximise the time in the harder to get to places. So, you could leave Brittany until later. Your Atlantic crossing will take you not too far north of the Cape Verdes islands and I would recommend including them in your itinerary. We did not spend long in the Canaries and would have enjoyed more time there. The Rias in Northern Spain are nice, but the islands in the Atlantic have more going for them in terms of scenery, culture difference and music. Southern Portugal is very hot and expensive if you go into marinas (not necessary, but ...)

We still have to visit the Leeward Is and the northern Windwards, but here is my two pennorth. Tobago is delightful and harder to get to once in the main chain of islands, but very highly recommended - we are going there for Christmas. Trinidad is best done during the hurricane season when you stay south - also convenient for seeing the leatherback turtles laying their eggs. Many people hang out in Grenada during the hurricane season, despite Ivan in 2004.

If you like doing more than just swimming and hanging out on the boat etc, buy a guide book that gives info about walks etc e.g Insight Guides. So, such as Dominica is good for that. We are francophiles and intend to spend a lot of time in Martinique and Guadaloupe.

We have found the US influence very strong on the ex-Brit islands and that's OK if your idea of a "special" is hamburger.

We have been informed that the islands get more expensive as you head north and commonsense says such as the BVIs (lots of charters and holidaymakers) will be more costly and busier compared to, for example, Tobago and Carriacou.

The safe period for hurricanes is indeterminate but you can probably bank on sailing until mid/late July and as early as November. Some people head for the ABC islands during the hurricane season, but then there's Venezuela nearby (a potential threat but to be regarded with caution not terror).

Then, of course there's Cuba which could be done in a second season before return to UK in May.

Hope this helps - buy a cruising guide e.g Imray for the Lesser Antilles and enjoy.
 
Stay south in the carib to avoid hurricanes, or go west to azores then canaries again and back to carib the second year.

I would say that the med isn't the learner's paddling pool lots of people seem to pretend it is - not cheap, the spanish marinas often don't like you anchoring, and nasty short seas that can stop the boat dead when you thought you had everything sorted. Cote d'azur just had gales in august.

Important to get out of the med and off to the canaries sooner rather than later - lots of people going transat set off in late sept or even october or nov and get a massive kicking.

I go westbound with the arc - do the sums and you'll find that las palmas is the cheapest canaries marina by up to 50% - but you can't stay long if you aren't in the ARC. If you've got the kit then arc is cheap. If you haven't got the kit it's a load of gear to buy, but most if not all of it you should have already.

There are loads of chandleries etc in abroad land yerknow - the boat doesn't have to be totally srted to set off in good weather. Al those ratheap boats biscay marinas can make it to the next marina.
 
Skip Brittany you can always do that in a summer cruise from the UK.

We regretted not being able to spend more time in the Spanish Portugese Rias. But leave late for the Canaries and your the chances of a gale en route are higher. We had to heave to for 24 hours.

IMHO the ARC often leaves to early. It certainly did in the year I had paid to do it and we watched from the mole as the fleet set off into a strengthening SW wind. After 3 days some of the smaller boats had only made 100 miles. Cruise the other islands of the Canaries and prep for the crossing after tha ARC leave.

What you do in hurricane season may depend on your insurance. have you checked the small print on what you can do and where you can be? Some I know will insist on you not being anywhere between Trinidad and the Chesapeake, 1st June till November.

I have cruised and am currently cruising The Windward Islands during hurricane season and feel OK about doing this as I am prepared to leave with a few hours notice and sail to Grenada or Trinidad or Venuzuela. For the last 2 weeks in August and the first 2 in September I would be in Bequia or further south.

Caribbean Itinerary Hmmm

Jan Arrive from the Transatlantic in Barbados short stay say Hi to Bajansailor
Tobeago longer stay
Trinidad I am a little biased against Trini as I like to swim and the waters of Chaguramas can be disgusting BUT it is a great place if your boat needs work and CARNIVAL starts Feb 20 in 2012. If you only do one Caribbean Carnival it has got to be Trinidad.
Grenada do an Island tour and the Friday night Fish Fry at Goave ask on the cruisers net for times and current prices. They will also know who to go with.
Bequia for Easter regatta.

I reckon the above is pretty definite because Barbados and Tobeago are hard to get to once you are in the windies.

After Bequia up to Antigua then back down for hurricane season hanging around south of Martinique.

OR up to Antigua then St Maarten BVIs USVIs Puerto Rico Dominican Republic ?? Haiti ?? ?? Cuba ??

Depending on when and where you want to be during hurricane season.

Luperon in the DR is many peoples northern Caribbean hurricane hidey hole and Bruce Van Sant, the guru for that area, has summered there for many years.

OR from wherever you finish up along PR, DR or Cuba just head south across the Caribbean for Venezuela or Columbia.

Now you will hear lots of negative stuff said about both Venezuela or Columbia but lots of people cruise through there with no problems. I can not speak from recent first hand experience so you need to exercise your own judgement and check noonsite for security updates closer to the time.

Things that people can miss, the Saints visit the Fort Napoleon museum, Guadeloupe allow several days to explore the Island. If your draft allows go though the canal and gunkhole the Cul de Sac du Marin.

gotta go pt 2 coming soon.
 
I'm writing from North Brittany and 2 weeks away from ending our own Atlantic circle. We took 15 months and left the UK in late May as well. We took our time in the Spanish Rias and Portugal and then rushed past the Spanish Costas to enjoy our summer in the Western Med (Balearic, Sardinia, Corsica and S. France). We did not see Madeira but wish we had. Didn't see Cape Verde as we were in the ARC but would have otherwise. Saw the Caribbean from the Granadines all the way up to Florida and including Cuba, Turks and Caicos and Puerto Rico. I think next time we would stay in the southern Carib and depart from the Virgin Islands. We stopped in both Bermuda and Azores and enjoyed both (especially Azores).
More and more people with 2 years for a cruise are doing an enlarged Atlantic circuit that takes in Cape Verde to Brasil with the second winter spent in the Carib. Have you considered that?
I know people say the ARC leaves too early but last year was an exception. We took 17 days while friends that left later on a similar boat took 26 days and had to spend Christmas at sea! We found the ARC a lot of fun by the way.
 
Another thing - take care making plans. this doesn't mean don't resarch in advance, but lots of people get wrapped into a schedule of meeting these friends from st lucia, then some others from antigua and it all sounds hard work.

My fave places in windwad/leewad chain are Les Saintes for cuteness, Barbuda for being a completely differently flat beach, and st martin cos loads of mates end up there and there's lots to do.

Actually i also oughta mention st lucia where my boat is actually a navigation mark. Yeah! Chris Doyle's book has close-up a pic of my boat in rodney bay and it says "rodney bay", so i spect lots of boaties there are a bit lost at the moment, looking round for my boat at anchor but nowhere to be seen...
 
Why O Why does everybody make so much of going across the pond to the Caribbean. Do the eastern seaboard if you have too.
But for some real treats and no risks go into the St Laurence and up the great Lakes if you want a total lifetimes experience.
OK it may be a little more expensive and fraught with red tape, but they all speak and understand English.
It will probably take you two to three years to do it properly and you will have total iced up winters of 4 months to coupe with but they have the facilities to cope with all that and are well used to it.
How do I know Well I have done it all for six years from Florida to Duluth and Prince Edward Isl and Churchill in Hudson's Bay.
PS and crossing the pond (Atlantic) is only a watch Keeping exercise. At the best 4 on 8 off.
 
well, they make a big deal of it cos they've got sunshine in carib in january, and not in canada/great lakes. Brrr!

Atlantic is a teensy bit more than a "watchkeeping exercise", and it's not too helpful that you attempt to belittle other people's grand plans, i think? ok, it seemed like that, perhaps i'm wrong. Atlantic is quite a big deal, really - I bet it was for you before you did it, hm? Well, i bet you didn't think oh, it's just a bit of watchkeeping?
 
Old salty

Well Its not a 'pond' Its a full on big oh bit of yer life. Hard yakka.

Have done a bit of watchkeping for, well, most of me life.

Please do not taka tha pissa.

Why would anyone swap sandy beach for what you propose.......

Keep your bilges dry!
 
Thanks for all the great advice so far.
It is interesting to see so many different views being expressed.
I suppose life would be boring if we all liked and thought the same thing.
I probably should have added a couple of additional facts when I made my original post as they are relevant.

I sailed the boat "Borne" from the UK to the Canaries about 10 years ago where I lived on her for over a year so she is well proven. And for what it's worth IMHO San Sebastian on La Gomera is the nicest and by far the friendliest harbour/marina in the Canaries, I don't like the City ( it's what I am escaping from ) and did not enjoy las Palmas.
When I left the UK she was a shell without interior or winches etc and her sea trials were the crossing of the channel to Cherbourg so I have no problem doing work on the go though she will spend the winter in our garden so plenty of time to get her right.
We don't like the cold. If we did them I would head north and explore Scotland rather than cross the Atlantic.
I was a competitive freediver and spearfisherman so want clear water and fish, that way we always eat well *as anyone who knew me in the Canaries will confirm.
We are leaving a little later than we could so that we can enjoy some decent weather on the way down.*
Have no urge to sail into the Med and we will probably head to Madeira before going much south of Lagos.
One thing a few people agree on is the Rias. Spent some time there previously but not enough so we do intend to enjoy Spain properly this time.
It is the info on the Caribbean that we most value. The American influence is not really what we are looking for so we are planning to pass the US only on the way home.
We will be living relatively cheap ( budget of £1000 max per month ) so want to avoid expensive marinas and too much organised stuff.
Most important thing for us is the people, both locals and other cruisers so we do look forward to meeting some if you out there.

Please keep the replies coming, they are highly valued.

And if any of you are around Portland next week let us know.
 
tcm said:
well, they make a big deal of it cos they've got sunshine in carib in january, and not in canada/great lakes. Brrr!

Atlantic is a teensy bit more than a "watchkeeping exercise", and it's not too helpful that you attempt to belittle other people's grand plans, i think? ok, it seemed like that, perhaps i'm wrong. Atlantic is quite a big deal, really - I bet it was for you before you did it, hm? Well, i bet you didn't think oh, it's just a bit of watchkeeping?
Click to expand...

I was not tyring to put any one down the Great lakes are a fantastic place the temps in the summer months are fine 80 to 110f in places You can drop England in Lake Victoria and it won't touch the sides O and it can take 2 to 3 days to go end to end flat out, it is the winters that are cold but unlike our winters there they are dry so you don't feel as miserable and wet as in the UK.

Now the Pond as pros call it, Yes I have been across it in absolutely flat calm you could see the wake disappearing over the horizon on both sides astern.
I also have been thrown out of my bunk in F10 + and thats in a proper bunk with full lea boards.
Full blown electric storm's we have lost life boats and deck gear stove in water tight doors. Passed other ships The old Lizzie 3 to 4 mils off and never seen her.
Changed nave lights up the mast at 0300 in a f8/9 wet though.
Yep theres not much you can tell me about the Atlantic North or South.

As for my comment to a watch keeping exercise Seen it on a few occasions new boy stays up all the time for the first day or so, then when it gets a bit tough going he is too knacked to respond to do his stint.
So what I really mean is you start watches and with the off watch putting there heads down after S.O.P. and full away and stick to strict wachkeeping all the way over, that way there is always some one who is able to cope.
Thats the way we do it on trips from Liverpool the the Channel Isles as well.
 
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Lake Victoria? Think you got the Great Lakes (and continent).
The Great Lakes are great and I did my 1st sailing there but most of us escape to the warm climates when we go.
The other nice thing about the Carib, if you like that sort of thing is that you meet tons of people sailing and it's lots of fun. We found the cruising life in Europe and N. America not as sociable.
 
Can’t wait to get home and dig out the Atlas!!

Anyone got a set of charts they want to part with?
I will have a plotter but like to back up on paper, age of charts not so important as I understand that rocks and islands move very slowly! ( so no charts older than say 10,000,000 years old ! )

Mixmaster, I think you are spot on. Its all about the people you meet and that’s what I am most looking forward to.

Old salt, you are obviously a proper knarly pipe smoking sailor of the old school. Unfortunately, we are too used to our comforts. My mum told me that if there is a storm when we are crossing the Atlantic then we should drop the anchor and wait until it has blown over.........maybe you would have stayed in your bunk if you had tried this technique!! LOL.

TQA and all the other posters.......thanks, we will take all advice gladly and are hoping to draw up a rough itinerary with a view to being flexible once we get there and start talking to people.

Main thing that we were worried about ( and now feel is OK ) is getting it done in 2 years allowing for the Hurricane season.
Reckon we will spend as much time as possible in the Caribbean before we head home. so we will turn left when we get there and head far enough South to avoid the storms for the Summer.

Madly excited about it.

Please follow our progress on http://melandnick.com ,which I will try to update on a regular basis once we leave ( never seems time to write as too much time spent preparing at the moment )

Thanks again for all help.
 
Lots of interesting advice. We are off soon on the same journey but one way. Anyone got any comment on a stopover in Agadir in November, followed by a mid December departure from Canaries for Barbados? Also, how unrealistic/grim is it getting back to Barbados from, say Desirade or Marie Galante (or would you kick off from some other point if you had to do it?)
 
Places.

Offhand list of places I like....

Agadir. Now has a full service marina. Polite and friendly Officials. Next to huge beach, reasonably priced restaurants. Bit touristy. Try the Britsh Sports Bar (really) for footie! Easy trips inland to find the real Morocco.

La Palma (the Canarian Island). Lot less tourism than most, almost prefer it to La Gomera. Interesting new ish marina in Santa Cruz, looks like a lorry park but is great. You can use the Club Nautico for bar, restaurant, showers and swimming pool.

Lanzarotte. Fan of Puerto Calero, had a great 2 years there!

Cape Verdes. Mindelo does it for me, old fashioned, slightly scruffy with ragged edges. Like looking in a mirror. Cheapish good fresh food. Diesel bug at the fishermans diesel dock, use additive if desperate.

Upwind to Barbados is pants. Top first stop going west though.

Bequia has superb reef diving. Lots of the smaller Islands going South are good for short stops, Union, Canouan and Carricou well worth it. For me, Tobago Cays are an over rated tourist trap.

Try Dennis's Hideaway on Mayreau (spelling).

Oop North, Antigua and in particular Jolly Harbour is place to rest up a while and draw breath. Check out the Saturday yacht racing, brill.

Nevis. Pinneys Beach, Sunshines Bar. Niller Bee punches. After several you feel as though you have been.

As TCM mentioned, St Maarten / St. Martin is a good meeting point. Try also the bar by the end of the airport runway.....topless girls drink free! Also for the less prudish, people watching at the Orient Bay nudie beach.

Lots of the smaller Islands along the Venezuelan coast. Tops. Robinson Crusoe style. Didn't find a pirate. Diesel 4 years ago was just over a penny (!) a litre.

Could go on, but its a start!

Happy cruising and don't let the regular customs clearances get you down!
 
Good list.

there's a new bar in st martin based around a busted bus on the beach in simpson's bay, next to the runway, fab food but no topless discount. The topless discount bar is sunsetbeachbar.com, and you gotta with a v cheap bird cos the beers are only 3 dollars. so basically they go toples for 3 dollars, hm. Mind you, if eleven blokes went in with 1 woman and she took her top off and said i'll have a dozen beers would that work?

Jolly harbour is getting a bit manky compared with new five+ years ago. Nice anchorage and good suoermarket tho.
 
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NW Caribbean

If you have 2 years then have a look at the NW Caribbean,

Probably the best hurricane hole is the Rio Dulce Guatemala and you have Belize, Honduras and the Yucatan peninsula and Cuba all within reach
 
Hi MelandNick

Lots of good Advice from everyone.
We had the same plan 8 years ago and still haven't got plans to return, so be aware that your plans and out look will change once you get going!.
Somewhere no one mentioned is the San Blas Islands of the coast of Columbia and Panama, truly out standing and a trap for many happy cruisers who can find no reason to go anywhere else as they find all the ingredients to make for a perfect time and no hurricanes, but some really spectacular electric storms.
The indigenous people the Kuna are friendly and welcoming and strongly in touch with their heritage and very proud of their independence as a people.

The rias of northern Spain are worth all the time you can spare especially during Fiesta season, but that may not co-incide with your proposed itinerary.

The year we left from las palmas we watched and listened to the ARC get beat about by strong winds then becalmed for days at a time, we waited for 3 weeks for our window and had a great crossing, not the fastest at 22 days but a great crossing with no horror stories, so pick your departure with a longer term out look, it may be preferable to wait for a weather window rather than leave on a set date, that is one of the advantage of being a cruiser rather than a participant in a rally, you get to make the decisions and can change any part at any time.

When you make land fall Barbados will be a good first stop, with all the islands only a good days sail after that, we planned 5 days and stayed 3 months, just because we could.

Bequia is a nice stop and a gate way the Grenadines, it is a tourist trap with fees and extra payments, but so what you and I are tourists and when are you going to see them again, it is worth the fees as these islands and reefs are world class and not be missed if it can be helped.

Grenada is beautiful and has recovered well from Ivan with great facilities and many free anchorages.

Trinidad is worth the stop if you are staying with your vessel but don't leave your pride and joy unattended for any length of time as there is a big trade in stolen parts and they have to come from somewhere, we know as our boat was broken into and looted while on the hard and no one cared in least as we were seen as rich tourists who could afford the replacement cost of all the un-recovered property, $5,000.
So be aware! I wont return but don't let that stop you from going at least once.

St Lucia has some spectacular scenery and an expensive marina which is well appointed for repairs and food stocking.

Dominica is even more spectacular with volcanoes, rain forrest and waterfalls all worth the hikes, and many great eco trips and tours in the northern anchorages. Most of which you can do yourself with a good dinghy or kayaks.

The French islands are very French, if you like the south of france then you are in for a treat but with your proposed budget then maybe not for you.

Antigua, is a beat to windward if you go from the main routes, but some amazing history from the moment you land in the southern harbours.

St Kits and Nevis have great beaches and good hiking.

St Barts can be extremely expensive but with a little looking around you can stay cheaply for a few days before heading to ether Saba (which always has a rolly side) or on to St Martin (wifey says thats the party island) with many bars and restaurants( ranging in price from $5 to $100 for a meal per person) and all the facilities you could dream of for any repairs and routine maintenance. But check the inbound customs costs on the Dutch and French sides as there are charges that vary from anchorage to anchorage, some free some pay as you stay and the bridges are also worth checking as the French one is free and the Dutch charge by the foot into the lagoon, the French dont charge for anchorage in the lagoon but the Dutch do, so do some research and check the cruisers radio nets for latest advice.

The Virgin Islands come in three parts, British, US and Spanish (Puerto Rico) all are beautiful but with vastly different customs procedures.

As an aside all the Island states are independent countries and have different requirements and procedures which you must take seriously.
I still ask for help when ever I go to customs office as things can change and if you are polite but plead ignorance most will be happy to help you enter their country.
I always go in clean clothes and am as respectful as I can be as politeness is valued above almost every thing else, always start a conversation with an inquiry as to how the day or the weather or the cricket is treating the customs officer you are dealing with. It goes along way.

But the best advice I/We can give you is buy the cruising guides to the islands in the Caribbean that you are planning to visit and ask the cruisers that you will meet for the latest on what is going on.
There are thousands of us moving north or south or not going very far but willing talk for hours about where you plan to go next, usually for the price of a happy hour libation.

These are some of our ideas and experiences and unique to us, as you travel you will meet many who will give their idea of the perfect cruise, you can pick the good bits and leave the rest.

Hurricanes are something you learn to live with or something to be avoided at all costs, that will depend on the speed of your information and the speed of your vessel, if you hole up on an island for the season you could miss 4- 6 months cruising.
With some research and planning you could spend your time moving around with hurricane holes only a day's sail away on most islands. All info on approaching hurricanes is available 5-7 days ahead, so there is time to move.

Good luck on your plans and keep us all informed on your progress, look forward to meeting you in a year or two.

Mark N Lee
s/v Manatee
:)
 
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