Advice Please: Wind Against Current Cherbourg via Dover/Calais to Oostende

[MarkJ]

Hi

I'm not from around here.. Australian on his second circumnavigation. Done a few laps of the English Channel but only in good weather.

Heading Cherbourg to Oostende in 25, gusting 30+ knots South Westerly Friday 16th (late) to Oostende Sunday 17th. Way too early for an accurate weather forecast, but looking 25-30. So wind very deep run.

Adverse current maximum about 2 knots off Calais. Max 1 knot the rest of the way.

Boat is a well found Beneteau 393, 39 feet, 11.62m

My question is: Blowing for 12 hours at 25 to 30+ knots how untenable would the English Channel be with the wind against tide???

(Yes, I know, leave it till its better, hope wx moderates etc, but may want to..)


Thanks for your advice


Mark

 

[johnalison]

A well-found yacht with a fit crew will manage it. For myself, we have enjoyed F6 crossings in the same waters with a free wind in our HR34 but I wouldn't have set out with just my wife and me, both in our 70s in anything like F7.

The seas will indeed mount up but shouldn't be enough to overpower the boat. This is assuming that more wind doesn't come, since 35kn+ could be dangerous in a smallish boat. You also need to bear in mind that Dover western entrance can be very unpleasant indeed in strong westerly winds, in fact anything over F5.

 

[Marmalade]

Depends how your boat handles with the wind astern. Some autopilots can't cope with quartering seas and hand-steering for the whole journey could be a bind.

Personally wouldn't head out in these conditions / forecasts but each to his own!

edit: just realised you're talking about next week - principle the same though...

 

[Biggles Wader]

Without looking it up I would expect a bit more tide than 1-2 knots especially at springs and especially off Cherbourg and Calais. Having said that I would think a boat like yours would have a cracking sail in those conditions in the prevailing S Westerlies. The really rough bit at Dover is only just outside the harbour, well under half a mile of it, but worth it if you need a rest. The harbour itself is very sheltered once inside. Again, the tide zips past really quickly

 

[Concerto]

My choice would be to stay on the French coast as that will minimise wave height as you are more in the lee of the shore. I have sailed my Westerly Fulmar (32ft) singlehanded in similar conditions along the English coast, so if your sailing experience is vast then you will find it a blast.

 

[STOL71]

Southern North Sea Dunkerque to Oostende can be very unforgiving in heavy swell. Downwind you'd probably be alright.
The challenge would be against the wind in a fin keeler.

 

[Daydream believer]

Cherbourg boulogne stop and rest. Dipping south of any shipping.Then pick the tide for dunkirk then repeat for ostend but watch the passage through the banks after calais
i tend to do short hops as i go SH so le havre and dieppe. Last time i omitted le havre and went to dieppe which is a nice stoppover
adds to the miles but it depends what you want
check this, but from memory if you leave cherbourg 4 hours after hw dover you get a bit of a back eddy by keeping inside pierre en noire and basse du renior and then catch favourabletide at barfleur and can ride it for quite a long way eastwards.
barfleur can be rough but wind over tide would be ok.

 

[Gitane]

Just a warning on Oostende.

To get in to the main marine, you have to go through a lock and then have to wait in another section to go through a lifting bridge. There is also a waiting pontoon outside the lock, but in summer this can get crowded.

If singlehanded, entry into the main marina can be a bit nerve wrecking. Better to enter the marina with at least one other person.

 

[pyrojames]

As said above, I think it all depends on how your autopilot will cope with fast downwind surfing. I cam back from Cowes to Ipswich last year in similar conditions, but in a bigger heavier boat (50’ 20 tons). We surfed a fair bit particularly from Beach head to Dover. Travelling fas in those conditions, you can normally carry a fair tide to Dungeness, and then fight it to Dover. You pick up a fair die once you get to the North Sea.

It’s a fun sail, much better than my motor sailing passage back last weekend in very light easterlies!

 

[Gwylan]

+1 for stop at Boulogne, or keep it as a plan B option.

Stay on the French side of the Channel.

Dover is a great place to stop, but someone stole their only horse. Town has a charisma deficit.
The entrance in some tide and weather conditions can be 'puckering'. Whatever the books say the tide, in either direction, can get quite a lick on across the entrance.

From Boulogne take the tide up, time it to get the big lift past Cap Griz and on to Oostende. Do follow the channels along the coast.
At Oostende you can go up the far end to the Royal Yacht Club Oostende - avoids the locks and so on. Club is adequate and it means a tram ride to town, but you are not hostage to the lock gates and tides. Longest tram line in the world, apparently. Ask at the club about getting tickets for the tram.

Maybe consider Nieuwpoort. Altogether nicer place. Seek wisdom on here about which marina to choose.

 

[guernseyman]

A while ago there was a long thread on Wind against Current (or Tide), which ended up pointing out that it is more correctly Wave Train against Tidal Stream inasmuch as the wind that created the wave train may have changed direction or even disappeared.

 

[Cantata]

I would bear in mind the apparent funnelling effect on wind through the Dover Strait - certainly with a SW wind I have consistently found that whatever the forecast said, the wind strength is a Force or two higher.

 

[Gitane]

I would bear in mind the apparent funnelling effect on wind through the Dover Strait - certainly with a SW wind I have consistently found that whatever the forecast said, the wind strength is a Force or two higher.

I can confirm that.

Returning to Ramsgate from Calais yesterday and just east of the Goodwin sands, I was getting 23knot gusts from the south whilst listening to the maritime safety message telling me that the winds were F2 to 4.

 

[MarkJ]

Thanks so much to everyone for your fantastic local knowledge.
I was thinking everyone would say "stay in the bar and wait a week'.

Good information about the wind compression zone through the Dover Strait. It sure looks like that would be an effect with looking at the chart. I'll tuck in an extra reef prior.

The whole route on the current forecast looks like 2nd reef in the main the whole way. Its a very deep reef designed for passage making. then I just adjust with the genoa. Good for downwind stability and a bit of speed.

Interesting bit.

Wave Train against Tidal Stream inasmuch as the wind that created the wave train may have changed direction or even disappeared.

I hope so because that was the most worrying thing.

My thread title, on review, isnt as accurate as my brian felt it was going to be with I wrote it, so Im sorry for the ambiguity. I am not going into Dover. I am going directly Cherbourg to Oostende but particularly interested in the area Dover/Calais as this is where that wind funnel appears and has the strongest currents.

My choice would be to stay on the French coast as that will minimise wave height as you are more in the lee of the shore.

If the current is going to be against me off Cap Gris Nez on the French coast I though of hogging the buffer zone in between the shipping lanes. I can slip into the middle much earlier on. Then as soon as Im around the corner of that Cap go into the lee close to the French coast.

I am so please you think its acheivable

Im watching the weather now. The particular system has not even formed in the USA so hopefully it will be nicer than GFS currently shows.

Thank you for your help.

Mark

 

[johnalison]

The seas can indeed build up, especially near the banks. In calm weather most of these are no problem but should be avoided in a sea. This is our 26 footer seen from a friend's Moody off Ostend from when I was young and stupid. The tide was running against us at the time.

 

[MarkJ]

The seas can indeed build up, especially near the banks. In calm weather most of these are no problem but should be avoided in a sea. This is our 26 footer seen from a friend's Moody off Ostend from when I was young and stupid. The tide was running against us at the time.

Do you remember the wind speed at the time?

That looks like a perfect summers day for UK sailors!



Mark

 

[johnalison]

Do you remember the wind speed at the time?

That looks like a perfect summers day for UK sailors!



Mark

It was before the days of transducers on small boats such as my Mystere, though I had an accurate electronic log. We had spent the previous day or two riding out the gale by taking a train to Brugge. I can remember (1980) sitting in the NSYC with our club group looking at the wind meter on the wall which was stuck in the 30s or so. On this day our then commodore Derek Steele, who I trusted at the time, said "It's dropped into the 20s, so lets put up a jib and go for Flushing" even though the tide was adverse. Thus, the two of us set out and had a roller-coaster ride during which my log stuck at its maximum reading of 10kn several times. Their centre-cockpit Moody 33 shipped water into the cockpit several times, while our low freeboard Mystere didn't take a single drop. The wind was certainly more than we saw in the club, probably mid F7.

This another pic taken by a club member who stayed behind for some reason. I can see that our son had a life-jacket but I'm not sure about me, though I would have been clipped on.

 

[westhinder]

Thanks so much to everyone for your fantastic local knowledge.
I was thinking everyone would say "stay in the bar and wait a week'.

Good information about the wind compression zone through the Dover Strait. It sure looks like that would be an effect with looking at the chart. I'll tuck in an extra reef prior.

The whole route on the current forecast looks like 2nd reef in the main the whole way. Its a very deep reef designed for passage making. then I just adjust with the genoa. Good for downwind stability and a bit of speed.

Interesting bit.

I hope so because that was the most worrying thing.

My thread title, on review, isnt as accurate as my brian felt it was going to be with I wrote it, so Im sorry for the ambiguity. I am not going into Dover. I am going directly Cherbourg to Oostende but particularly interested in the area Dover/Calais as this is where that wind funnel appears and has the strongest currents.


If the current is going to be against me off Cap Gris Nez on the French coast I though of hogging the buffer zone in between the shipping lanes. I can slip into the middle much earlier on. Then as soon as Im around the corner of that Cap go into the lee close to the French coast.

I am so please you think its acheivable

Im watching the weather now. The particular system has not even formed in the USA so hopefully it will be nicer than GFS currently shows.

Thank you for your help.

Mark

In the conditions that now seem likely, you would be well advised to avoid having to round Cap Gris Nez with wind against current. The wind does indeed increase 1 or 2 points on the Beaufort scale in the Dover Strait, and the current is strong, which makes for very uncomfortable conditions. In that case plan a tidal stop at Boulogne, or even Dieppe. Entering Boulogne in that kind of weather can be interesting, do not ask me how I know.
Your idea of transiting the Dover Strait via the separation zone is flawed for two reasons: Dover Coastguard and the French Coastguard at Cap Gris Nez will take a very dim view of that as you are not supposed to use that zone for transit, only to cross the shipping lanes at right angles, and secondly but more importantly in this case, off Cap Gris Nez it is a shallow area due to a very irregular sandbank which in those conditions kicks up breaking seas. I would strongly advise you to avoid that area in anything over SW 6, al the more in wind against current.
Having rounded Cap Gris Nez in the inshore traffic zone as you’re supposed to, you will still meet very steep and irregular waves off Calais. Stay outside of the bank immediately off the entrance to Calais and inside the approach channel to Dunkirk/Dunkerque until you reach the Western entrance to Dunkirk, from where you follow the buoyed channel past the eastern entrance to Dunkirk. Do not go further offshore as that is an extensive area of shallow and irregular sandbanks where you do not want to go in the sort of weather we are expecting.
Following the buoyed channel past Dunkirk, that makes a dogleg across the shallows near the Belgian border, from where it is an easy approach to Oostende, provided you stay between the beach and the first sandbanks, respectively Small Bank, Nieuwpoort Bank and Stroombank. Oostende is safe to enter in all weather.