advice please - nav lights

i_sail

i_sail

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just purchased pippin 20 sailing yacht
need to install nav lights
any advice?
clip on -vs- fixed
battery -vs- proper 12 volt installation
conventional -vs- LEDs

any advice/experience very gratefully received thanks
 
Cheap vs expensive is a good start!

Torch cells cost a fortune as you will need dozens for a week's sailing with night passages. Do you have a 12v battery installed? Is there any way of charging it? Use that if you can with permanently wired lights. Only have clip on battery lights if they are for occasional emergency use only.

LED bulbs will significantly reduce power needed, but push initial cost up. It's all horses for courses. Tell us more about how you will use the boat & what power systems it already has if you want a deffinitive answer.

BTW, asking on here will always give you dozens of definitive answers . . . .
































. . . . all different!
 
thanks for the advice, i agree the individual battery option will prob work out very expensive

i am running a single 12 volt 115 amp hr deep cycle battery on board which at present is only supplying 3 cabin lights however i plan to connect a VHF and a Tri Data to that battery. i could also attach nav lights.

basically i am running a 5hp pull start engine which will not be providing any charging power to the battery. the only charge supply to the battery will be a wind generator that i am going to install, of course through a regulator

sailing wise, i will be keeping her on a mooring buoy, and i will basically be day sailing and weekending on her, but of course with the days drawing in, i will need nav lights sooner rather than later

as for LEDs -vs- conventional, i appreciate what you say, LEDs are more expensive, but then last longer and draw less........its a choice you have to make i guess
 
FWIW, I had a 25' o/b powered yacht on a swinging mooring for 7 years. If I was planning a week or two on board I would take the battery home and recharge it fully before the holiday. I installed an oil lamp (£20 -ish) for cabin use which was a big benefit and I also seldom transmitted on the VHF. It would last, just, but failure was no big deal as the o/b was started by hand pull cord. If it fails, you can take it to a garage/ marina and they will propably give it a blast overnight for a few squid.

In fact, get your self a charger & marina lead & you simply need to stop in a marina every now & again. A wind gen (costs about £400-ish) should cover the very light load you have specified.
 
Led's not cheap but less current drain and far longer life. but if your prepared to make your own. quite simple.They appear to be just an led and resistor circuit encased in clear resin. different coloured leds for different coloured lights. Seems to be plenty of websites on how to make your own led lights. I am currently researching this, so I can make my own too. I'll post something later with how I got on.
 
good idea re. taking the battery home and charging it before a holiday on the boat. any ideas where oil lamps are available? i was toying with the idea of taking a couple of decent fully charged hand held VHFs on board, instead of installing a VHF, for that exact reason (ie that an installed VHF will quickly drain the 12 volt battery). i already have a wind gen brand new ready to go, quite a heavy duty one, dont have details at the moment, i was hoping it would keep the battery fully charged up, bit hopeful i guess......also i am worried that the wind generator hanging off the back will make the boat a bit too tippy, as she is only 20 feet! any thoughts?
 
Google "oil lamps" lots of places will pop up. Nauticalia do them, but the lacquered brass finish tends to tarnish, having said that, mine must be around 20 years old, so the patina is appropriate.

Small boats are usually designed to float bows down without crew, so when there are 2 in the cockpit it is level. if you are single-handing, the genny is unlikely to affect trim adversely. Try not to get it too high.

Work out your probable daily a/hours from the consumption of lights/ radio etc. then compare it with the genny output (assume half rated output for 8-10 hours/day as an approx typical supply). I think a genny will more than balance your probable load. Remember VHF takes relatively little on stand-by or receive, but around 30W (6A) on transmit.

And don't fit a fridge or microwave /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
thanks for that, will google the lamp.
i take your point about the boat sitting bows down
definately wont fit a fridge - will keep the milk in the cold water in a bag when moored up! as for microwave - luckily i have gas and 2 burner hob on board, so at least i can have a brew up whilst sailing!
 
I had a medium-sized wind generator on a 25' boat. It was just too large for the boat, a weight on the end of a pole that got in the way. The blades at their lowest point were 6' from the cockpit sole and my son (6'3") objected.
Basically, it there is ANY chance of anyone's anatomy contacting the spinning blades, there's an unjustifiable risk. A safe installation is possible on a larger boat but on 25', let alone 20', it's not (in my view) a safe practical proposition.
A solar panel might be practical, maybe. Output will be less than from a wind generator. Or you could get an outboard with a built-in generator. Or you could get the battery charged periodically, as discussed. Or all 3.
 
I have a similar sized boat

I fitted proper 12volt nav light that comply with the requirements of the Colregs. Namely Aquasignal 25 side, stern and steaming lights and an Aquasignal 40 tricolour. That gives me the option of deck level lights or tricolour when sailing and they are switched so that the tricolour cannot be inadvertently used with the other lights. (there are now very similar lights at much lower cost than the Aquasignals)

Led lights did not exist when I fitted mine but even now I probably would not fit them despite their much lower power requirements. Too expensive for one reason!

I only have a 60Ah battery (previously only a 45 Ah one) I do get a little charging from the outboard but it is only significant if run for long periods at fairly high speed. My main source of power is therefore a small (only 5watt) solar panel.

In addition to the cabin lights and Nav lights the other heavy users are the VHF (when transmitting) and the Autohelm. The later is in near constant use!

Prior to fitting the solar panel I used to take the battery home once or twice per season but since fitting it that has not been necessary.

I have to replace my solar panel. If I had the space I would upgrade to 10watts but I dont and the 5 watt has proved to be adequate to recharge the battery between weekend outings.
 
I'm also having problems deciding on the nav lights. Recently got a pair of LED lights for starboard and port and they work fine. For some reason however I cannot find a reasonably prized stern light. Most manufacturers seem to make port and starbord lights and a white 360° light. Not very practical! Of course there's Hella, Aquamarine etc but they're a bit posh.
Is it either them or DIY? Must admit I don't fancy the latter though!
 
6 Watt solar panel , 28 quid on Ebay - my only problem is to make sure I don't overcharge and I've solved that, the jackstayenables me to give some shade, if neccesary.
 
I had some clip on lights on a 15' dinghy once but after tying her up and loooking at her from a short distance decided I definately needed to rely on a bright torch as well (although I was once congratulated by the MODPLODS for being better lit than several yachts they had encountered the same evening.

My previous 23' boat had a rope start engine so although initially using 12v lights run off a battery I later (after someone made off with my Aerogen) found some cheap but effective Indian manufactured oil lamps (one bi-colour, one white sternlight) in a local emporium of imported goods which although not complying with the letter of the colregs were quite satisfactory for the few occasions when darkness fell while I was still sailing and were unlikely to be questioned on that particular old working boat.
 
LED nav lights appear to be twice the cost of incandescent nav lights so i would go for LED.

Re Meldrum making his own I reckon the price at about 12squid (here) with about 12 LEDs in each it would not be much cheaper to make your own and of course the commercial ones have some claim to correct angular coverage. I am considering making up a stern LED as commercial ones seem hard to find.

I think that cabin or pushpit mounted nav lights are a lot less trouble than running cables up the mast on a small boat. I also find that from a small boat the low lights are more noticeable. If you expect to be sailing amongst big ships then perhaps a mast top light is more noticeable. Some say mast top lights get lost in background lighting.

Don't even consider the portable temporary lights they are just waste of money. Likewise oil lamps for the cabin. If you have a battery then cabin lights are cheap enough. IMHO oil lights are for those who want tradition and brass for its own sake.

I would tend to agree that a large wind gen on a 20 fter would look out of place and provide too much windage and inconvenience when sailing. I use a small solar panel lashed to the boom cover when away from the boat it keeps my battery up over the week between sailing weekends. As said carry a battery charger and a long cord for away from home marina charging.

Only your sailing experience will show what is best for you regarding electric power. Don't go over doing it.

I have managed for many years with 10AH battery 5w solar with VHF radio cabin lights and incandescent nav lights.

good luck olewill
 
As Twister Ken says, the object of the exercise is to stop you getting run down.

If you've got an outboard, you'll have a very modest, if any, charging capacity from that. You will also not have enough power from the outboard (or a solar panel) to recharge a battery that has been deeply discharged. If you're going for long trips (i.e. several days or more), then consider taking a second battery. As someone says, you could take a mains lead and charger if you use marinas (be very careful of mains voltages on boats, though), otherwise you may be able to find boatyards, garages or kind souls who will charge your battery when away from home. Note that the light output from conventional bulbs falls sharply when the voltage drops below 12v as your battery voltage falls. (I'm not sure about LEDs.)

Turning to the lights themselves, in my view the height of the mast of a 20 footer (I assume that's what a Pippin 20 is) is not high enough to get your light lost in the background when at sea. Worry about that when you have a 50 footer. However, the deck of a 20 footer is very low and often hidden behind waves or swell, and therefore isn't the best level to have your primary nav lights, in my view.

Note that the Collision Regs specifically provide that sailing vessels under 7 metres may simply show a white light to prevent collision (but that if practicable, which I didn't think it was when I was in a similar position to you, she should show sidelights and stern light), and motor vessels under 7m (which you are when you have motor on) also may show a white light instread of the usual red/green/white. The upshot of this is that you can have an all-round white light which will cover you in sailing and motoring modes. This reduces cost and, potentially, battery power, but more importantly a white light will be visible at a greater distance than a green or red of the same power.

A white light, therefore, has significant advantages is ensuring you're seen - it's highly visible and you can run it longer/brighter with limited charging capacity. What it won't do is indicate to others which way you're facing. This is a disadvantage but, to my mind, secondary to the basic requirement of being seen.

You will have to decide for yourself, but in your situation I would splash out on a good quality LED all-round white and fit it at the mast head. This would be my main navigation light. (It can also function as an anchor light if needed, but I would suggest using a dry cell battery powered lantern as an anchor light, to save your precious main battery power.)

I would also have (non-LED because of cost) sidelights or a bi-colour, on a separate switch to the all round white, and a stern light on yet another switch, and use these only occasionally if necessary in harbour or in other situations when showing sidelights would avoid confusion. As on a vessel of this size the steaming light and stern light can be combined, this gives the following combinations.

Sailing:
Normally - All-round white only;
If required for clarity - sidelights and stern light only;
Motoring (and motor-sailing):
Normally - All round white only
If required for clarity - all-round white and sidelights only


However you do it, happy sailing!
 
My last two boats had little or no on board charging and a Forgen wind generator kept the batteries topped up and I had no problems, one boat had a single 80 amp battery with a second for going away and the second one had 2 80 amp batteries. On that one I carried a small petrol generator for emergency charging, but never used it.
 
With a pair of compliant LED side lights now available in the chandleries for sub £30, you can comply with Twister Kens wise advice and, have a totally power efficient system at the same time. LED stern lights are also available, try Perko.
 
just one other little comment ...
the biggest power gobblers of all are likely to be conventional (incandescent) interior lights; each could take an amp or so and there are likely to be several in use (once you get fed up with oil lights) ... use a fluorescent light, cheap from a caravan shop, or LEDs if you prefer. Much more efficient.

You can use a LED in the anchor light but these don't take a lot of power anyway, if fussy you can get a light which turns itself off in daylight, saves getting up at 5 am in summer ...
 
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