Advice please - multi dinghy road trailing (Wayfarer)

[ZigZag Sailor]

Hi all. I'm just getting into Wayfarer sailing but my family has a Laser 1 and a Topper in addition. Does anyone know of a way to stack all three. The biggest challenge will be getting the heavy Wayfarer into a stacking system. I recall seeing a box trailer with a stacking system which took a Wayfarer in the solent last summer but didn't enquire further as I didn't know I was going to get my own. We have a big car but we want to take lots of kit, kids (X2), dog, bikes and of course boats! Any advice out there?

 

[Iain C]

I'd be tempted to just fabricate something from wood...basically some stout cross pieces that engage on the gunwales of the Wayfarer on the bottom, but are a cradle for the Laser on top of that. I'd then have further pieces that go across the foredeck and stern deck of the Laser, matching their profile, with the top of them shaped to match the profile of the Topper decks, which then sits on top of that, upside down. You'd probably need to come up with something to take bottom end of the W's mast, but a simple crutch/tripod arrangement should do it. Make everything perfectly profiled so that the boats neatly nestle together anyway, and then ratchet the whole lot down. Would cost you a lot less than a very expensive triple stacker and when not in use the wooden bits would be very easily stored...plus less drag if you are just towing the W somewhere on it's own.

 

[ZigZag Sailor]

Thanks for your ideas. Would the weight endanger the hull of the Wayfarer on the rollers? Additionally, do you think this would require a raod trailer with a greater axle weight? Thanks so much.

 

[ShinyShoe]

You can get stacking road trailers.

They aint cheap!

If I understand correctly you want to stack a Laser (1) and a Topper on a Wayfarer? Possibly with a bike rack too?

Not sure I've seen an off the shelf solution. You can probably get an off the shelf Wayfarer Double Stacker. I've certainly seen a rather posh GP14 one that had a fancy ratchet mechanism to lift the first boat up then load the second. Assumign it can be done with the weight for a Wayfarer that is possible... but unnecessary for what you want IMHO.

You sound like you've maybe seen one of these:

https://www.ashtonmarineservices.co.uk/multi-boat-trailers/

I'd not put a box on the bottom - the heaviest thing will be the wayfarer - it belongs at the bottom!

But I'd look at how topper and laser sailors with RIBs do it...



Any of the big dinghy trailer guys should be able to create you something. But expect a ££ tag...

Adding bikes - I've seen a couple of rib trailers where someone has bolted on some bike roof bar attachments near the bow... can't find any pics.
https://www.sturgisboatworks.com/TrailerRack_p/3lrib.htm

 

[FairweatherDave]

I have had similar issues loading our Wayfarer with extras. I think you are right to be thinking carefully about too much weight on the Wayfarer hull. I would be tempted to try and get one hull on top of the car. I had to use a longer mast support to clear the higher roof. If you have too much stuff in the Wayfarer the foot of the mast will also need raising. For reference I was using a combination trailer. With a bike rack on the back of the car there's not too much space before you clash bikes with the mast support. This weekend I got two adult bikes in the gap. A third would not have squeezed in. Got a kayak on the roof and another in the Wayfarer. Very aware of being somewhat overloaded if I had to do an emergency stop. So far my W has handled the abuse but if I had a posh racy one I would have used two vehicles in your situation.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

A wayfarer is heavy, a Laser a bit heavy and a topper light. Just add up the weight and make sure that you are not exceeding teh tweed weight of your vehicle.

The idea of the wood is a good one. I use a wooden beam across my wayfarer to spread the straps so they do not crush the gunwale or the side decks. It would be easy to modify this to support a Laser with an additional section at the back. You would need to modify the trailer so that the hull is supported over a wider area as the clamping forces or extra weight might not be kind to the hull.

 

[FairweatherDave]

In my case my behaviour was trailer abuse if not W abuse....
Mast is the big problem.

 

[solent clown]

depending on what trailer you have now, it would be a simple job for a fabricator to add a stack system. Yacht prices and trailer guy prices are both inflated, if you can find someone local who does general fabrication you will get a cheaper deal.
Personally I like the wooden bearer idea, simple, lightweight, and cheap!
If you get really stuck, and are southampton based, feel free to come borrow a tube bender and welder to have a go yourself.

 

[ShinyShoe]

A wayfarer is heavy, a Laser a bit heavy and a topper light. Just add up the weight and make sure that you are not exceeding teh tweed weight of your vehicle.

The idea of the wood is a good one. I use a wooden beam across my wayfarer to spread the straps so they do not crush the gunwale or the side decks. It would be easy to modify this to support a Laser with an additional section at the back. You would need to modify the trailer so that the hull is supported over a wider area as the clamping forces or extra weight might not be kind to the hull.

The wood is a dreadful idea IMHO!

You are looking at an extra 100kg of load, plus the weight of the wood, Your Wayfarer can handle 100kg loads afloat because the pressure is distributed across a large surface area of water... on your trailer that 100kg is going through some fairly minimal distribution points... either where the wood comes onto the boat or where the boat sits on the trailer. They you are going to add other extras masts etc.

Pass those loads to the trailer... not the wayfarer.

As for the axle - without knowing what you have - who knows!
Wayfarer is 170kg Plus.
With rudder, sails, mast, oars etc I'd say 250kg,
and 150kg for the other two boats.
A bike will be about 10kg if you are adding them on too... Lets assume 4 of them so 40kg, plus another 10kg for their mountings. so 50kg
Are you adding launch trolleys? For all 3 boats? Wayfarer Launch Trolley >= 30kg, others probably ~20kg each so 70kg
Total load (ignoring how you are mounting it all) 520kg

How heavy is the empty trailer? Will be at least 75kg but could be way more depending on design and model. That was from a Wayfarer trailer with a maximum load of 400kg (inc trailer).. if its a "750kg trailer" I would expect double the basic weight... so that leaves you about 80kg for the frame... might be just-about doable...

Now check your car unbraked tow limit. A lot don't got to 750!

 

[Kelpie]

Put the Topper on a roof rack.
If your current road base can't take the additional weight, it's fairly simple to buy new suspension units, available in various sizes e.g. 250kg, 350kg, 500kg. Simply swap them out by undoing the four bolts that connect them to the axle.
I was told that you should aim to match the unit to the expected loading. It's tempting to over-engineer it and buy the next size up, but you may end up with a stiffer ride and more shock loads transmitted to the dinghy.

 

[solent clown]

trailer law...

can-of-worms by mark punksteel, on Flickr


Post a pic or two of your trailer if you can, it might help.
Surely you can stick the topper in a back pocket?

 

[lw395]

To my mind, the question is, is the Wayfarer an old GRP shed that you don't mind abusing, or do you want to look after it?
If the latter, you want a proper stacker.
Lasers are not that light, and don't forget the weight of trolleys, rigs etc. It adds up.
There are two double stack trailers o ebay at the moment, neither looks suitable for a Wayfarer. But they show the general idea.
A wayfarer is not too difficult a boat to modify a trailer into a double, as it's not hugely wide like a Merlin for instance.
You can upgrade suspension units, or at least upgrade to 10inch wheels.
I would be keen to keep below the limit for an unbraked trailer (750kg unless your car is light), as trailer brakes are a world of pain.

Edit.
I would suggest it's possible to use a double-stack trailer with the topper lashed under the upper frame. The two boats on a double are never very close together as the lower boat needs clearance to get loaded.

 

[Daydream believer]

You can easily get double stacking trailers. There are several in our club for various classes.Range from Phantoms (triple stack) to 505's etc. Best option would be 2 on the trailer plus topper on the roof rack. Masts raked so they miss the topper.
the bikes go on the boot rack & my son has his 3 bikes & towbar for his dinghy done so he can do this OK.

 

[dunedin]

If anything other than a one off trip I would definitely go for the double trailer. Wayfarer on the bottom deck, laser on the top deck. Possibly the topper on top of the laser unless they are race boats, in which case Topper on the roof.
Easy to tie bikes onto the sides of the double trailer.

We have done thousands of miles with double trailers, often with bikes attached (and also thousands of miles with RIB stacker trailer, with RIB on bottom, two dinghies on top and one on the roof).

Bear in mind the HUGE wind forces of a Laser or Topper on top of another boat or car. Really needs to be secure. One of our boats was being transported by a fellow sailor, and didn’t put on sufficient straps. The bow forestay fitting on a new quality race boat pulled clean out and the boat back flipped over and onto the motorway. Lucky nobody was killed. Boat didn’t sail well after that.

 

[ZigZag Sailor]

Thanks so much everyone for your thoughts and ideas. I really appreciate it! I will mull this over and follow your various suggestions. I will report back once I have come to a solution. I dare say there will be lots more questions as I get more into my new boat. Thanks again, really worth joining this forum!

 

[FairweatherDave]

One question for the Wayfarer stacker trailer advocates. How are they launched? Dunking a road trailer? Genuinely interested.
Personally two bits of 4x2 across the gunwales and some old carpet is where I come from but obviously there are some swish solutions.

 

[dunedin]

One question for the Wayfarer stacker trailer advocates. How are they launched? Dunking a road trailer? Genuinely interested.
Personally two bits of 4x2 across the gunwales and some old carpet is where I come from but obviously there are some swish solutions.

Dinghy trailers these days are frames onto which the launching trolley attaches and locks in. So bottom deck is easy, as just unlock trolley and roll the wayfarer back.
Upper decks need to lift boat on trolley up into position. Hence if different boats, want the lighter laser up top. Double wayfarers would need some muscle to get off.

NB. Some very high capacity multi stacked trailers (maybe up to 16x) for boats like Oppies, Toppers and Lasers the boats may be upside down and trolleys store separately. Scary watching kids climbing up on deck 3 or 4 lifting Oppies down ! These typically used for long distances to reduce ferry costs.

 

[FairweatherDave]

Cheers Dunedin. I can see that working for clubs and schools but pretty serious for a family with a big Wayfarer. But the OP did ask..... maybe for a family of four a smaller two person dinghy and two one man boats would be more practical. But then you lose the fun of sailing as a four in one boat. Compromises somewhere......

 

[Deleted member 36384]

The wood is a dreadful idea IMHO!

A dreadful response, IMHO! I have 2100 kg of towable limit.

Of course stacking weight onto a dedicated stackable trailer is better. However, a laser hull weighs 59 kg, I weigh 90 kg and my crew around the same, yes the hull distribute the load through the supporting water. My comment about modifying the trailer to spread the weight is relevant and practical. It is quite possible to stack a laser onto a wayfarer if the wayfarer hull supports are wide. As a lower cost solution it is feasible. On most standard trailers the weight is taken at two points on the keel, the balance point and somewhere on the forefoot. With me standing in the hull on the trailer there is no risk of the hull being damaged.

 

[ShinyShoe]

A dreadful response, IMHO! I have 2100 kg of towable limit.

Ah yes - but does the trailer? I'd very much doubt a standard wayfarer trailer does...

Of course stacking weight onto a dedicated stackable trailer is better. However, a laser hull weighs 59 kg, I weigh 90 kg and my crew around the same, yes the hull distribute the load through the supporting water...

...With me standing in the hull on the trailer there is no risk of the hull being damaged.

No risk? Every bit of advice I've ever seen says avoid standing in the boat while it is ashore. Granted I have. But my shoes are soft and spreading my load over something like 600cm2 - But the big difference is - I am not on the trailer doing 60MPH on a motorway bumping over cats eyes, pot holes etc.

If this was a once a year, 10mile journey... ...I'd be tempted to do the same. It sounds like the OP may be doing several hundred miles per year like this...

One question for the Wayfarer stacker trailer advocates. How are they launched? Dunking a road trailer? Genuinely interested.

The standard approach is a launch trolley that mounts onto the road base just like any other combi trailer. Typically these are taking 2 or 3 boats to a race, so you need to be able to launch all at once so 3 launch trolleys needed. But for RIBs you'd have a roller trailer on the bottom. I could see the attraction of that for a wayfarer as they are seriously heavy... however - you'd need to work out how you can do that with the mast up (The stack will be in the way) as stepping and unstepping the mast afloat will be a PITA. Perhaps the Stack can be made removable!

Dunked road trailer - if not braked only issue is the bearings. By the time you've arrived, removed covers, two dinghies, stepped a mast and rigged... if your bearings aren't cooled you already have an issue!