Advice on training needed please

[Tam Lin]

I have been sailing on and off (more off than on) since I was 14, thats's a long time ago now! Firstly it was on dinghies then in the mid nineties I had a cruiser for about five years before selling her and going back to dinghy sailing. I have been doing up a Centaur for the last 2 years and should launch this spring. As I am now retired I anticipate having more time to sail and and am thinking about updating my training. I did the Day Skipper theory and VHF courses in 1995. My questions are:
-Do I need to go back and do the Day Skipper theory again then the practical or can I go straight onto the practical?
-Could I miss those and go on to Coastal Skipper?
- What are the pros and cons of going abroad and doing your training in the sun? (apart from the obvious!)
I know that I am asking a difficult question as you don't know me or my abilities but any suggestions will help organise my thoughts.
Thanks

 

[theoldsalt]

You already have a reasonable amount of knowledge and some experience.

Get the Centaur commissioned and enjoy your coastal cruising this summer (hoping we have one). Build up your knowledge, experience and confidence that way.

I have little time for courses except to get qualifications where they are mandatory. The courses cram so much into so little time it's almost impossible to remember it all.

I think it's just a way of getting money out of people.

If you were complete novice I would suggest you crew for someone first but you are not.

Enjoy your cruising.

 

[prv]

-Do I need to go back and do the Day Skipper theory again then the practical or can I go straight onto the practical?
-Could I miss those and go on to Coastal Skipper?
- What are the pros and cons of going abroad and doing your training in the sun? (apart from the obvious!)

If you still have a reasonable grasp of the theory (whether from that long-ago course or just from being out there doing it) then you can go straight to the practical course. I did the practical without ever doing the theory course (still haven't) but knowing most of what it covered. I had no problems - and we were navigating for real for most of the week as the GPS, log, sounder, and all other electronics packed up on the school boat

If you're at an appropriate standard for Coastal Skipper then you can do it - but of course we can't judge that from here.

Main "con" of doing courses in the Med is that your certificates will be endorsed as "non tidal" - same in the Baltic. This doesn't have any direct effect, as courses at this level don't formally qualify you for anything, but some will wish to avoid it.

Pete

 

[LadyInBed]

Get the Centaur commissioned and enjoy your coastal cruising this summer (hoping we have one). Build up your knowledge, experience and confidence that way.

Exactly

 

[gasdave]

Sounds like you probably already have a grasp (or more ) of theory somewhere inside you so don't bother with a theory course now. If you feel the urge to retail therapise yourself get a couple of decent course books and read them over what's left of the winter.

Alternatively consider a practical course as a means of some assisted refreshment, combined with holiday

Main "con" of doing courses in the Med is that your certificates will be endorsed as "non tidal" - same in the Baltic. This doesn't have any direct effect, as courses at this level don't formally qualify you for anything, but some will wish to avoid it.

You can take a tidal endorsed course in the Gibraltar sunshine.

 

[Rossynant]

Refresh Yourself on some current books, practical training as holiday a good idea.

Tidal endorsement? For someone from UK?
We here, from Baltic, to get certificate sail to UK to see some tides...

 

[[70521]]

It really depends on how you learn! Are you confident in "refreshing" your skills from a book and pottering about or do you want/need somebody to check that you can do what you think you can do.

 

[donaldson]

I am not sure of the exact dates, but it is likely you will need to do the VHF course (half a day) to get a Short Range DSC licence.

 

[sailorman]

I am not sure of the exact dates, but it is likely you will need to do the VHF course (half a day) to get a Short Range DSC licence.

you do not need a vhf Op licence to get a call sign. the ships licence is now foc

 

[Daydream believer]

Why not go to Bradwell & get your ICC cert test. You will need that to go abroad.
Revising for that will update you on colregs, lights, buoys etc & give you an idea of how well you remember it. I found that as i get older it is harder to absorb stuff so having a purpose, rather than just an interest, to do a bit of study will use your brain & give you an idea of what you can achieve by just reading books
If you pass easily you are probably ok for local sailing & just need a bit of book reading & practice. If you fail it- hardly anyone does- you know you need to start from scratch again. You also get a short sailing test
It is fairly cheep to do using your own boat & does not take long so you do not need loads of effort or preparation but would get an idea of where you are learning wise & your ability to learn

 

[Seajet]

Tam Lin,

before I did my ym offshore I did a week refresher course, which I found enjoyable and useful.

There's no particular need for you to do an exam is there, unless you think you might go through the courses.

I think a night school to refresh the nav might have been an idea, but you obviously have a responsible attitude so may as well just get on your Centaur and let it all come flooding back !

 

[sailorman]

Why not go to Bradwell & get your ICC cert test. You will need that to go abroad.
Revising for that will update you on colregs, lights, buoys etc & give you an idea of how well you remember it. I found that as i get older it is harder to absorb stuff so having a purpose, rather than just an interest, to do a bit of study will use your brain & give you an idea of what you can achieve by just reading books
If you pass easily you are probably ok for local sailing & just need a bit of book reading & practice. If you fail it- hardly anyone does- you know you need to start from scratch again. You also get a short sailing test
It is fairly cheep to do using your own boat & does not take long so you do not need loads of effort or preparation but would get an idea of where you are learning wise & your ability to learn

No you will not. only for inland France in their canal system

 

[Daydream believer]

No you will not. only for inland France in their canal system

No i believe you are wrong
I have been asked for my ICC in Belgium,holland & france.
In the 1970's i was arrested in belgium for not producing it ( admittedly i never had my passport or any other docs either). It tightens the cheeks of ones posterior when you get taken on the dockside by a customs & police officer & they shove a machine gun up your nostril. I seem to attract customs officers on both sides of the channel
In 1970 the icc was just a document you got by getting the club commodore to sign a form saying you had a boat

I believe you are confused with CEVNI which is covered by the icc having the note for inland waterways as yes. I was actually asked for it in holland although the customs officer hardly bothered to read it

 

[sailorman]

No i believe you are wrong
I have been asked for my ICC in Belgium,holland & france.
In the 1970's i was arrested in belgium for not producing it ( admittedly i never had my passport or any other docs either). It tightens the cheeks of ones posterior when you get taken on the dockside by a customs & police officer & they shove a machine gun up your nostril. I seem to attract customs officers on both sides of the channel
In 1970 the icc was just a document you got by getting the club commodore to sign a form saying you had a boat

I believe you are confused with CEVNI which i have had to produce in holland but i suspect in that instance the customs officer was just winding me up as he never actually read it

We will agree to differ
I have never been asked,never been arrested, i spent 5 weeks last summer in France.
Inland in The Netherlands no ICC or CEVNI req ( subject to o/a length / speed of vessel )

Misconception

The informal acceptance of the ICC by many of the EU countries has contributed to the common misconception that the ICC is of EU origin. The ICC is frequently but wrongly thought to be the boating equivalent of the EU driving licence for road vehicles, which all EU member states are obliged to accept.

An ICC allows the holder to voyage internationally but only where the country to be visited has chosen to accept it and subject to any prescriptions made by the visited country.

As the ICC’s validity is determined by the visited country it is not a truly international qualification. However, the ICC is the only international evidence of competence that exists for pleasure boaters in Europe and, through attendance at the UNECE in its role as Secretariat of the European Boating Association, the RYA continues to work to get the ICC more widely accepted in Europe.

This is also explained in the ICC the small print, which is sent out with ICC certificates to provide the certificate holder with information about how that certificate can be used.
ICC required or recommended

The requirement for evidence of competence varies from country to country. Sometimes it is required for coastal waters, sometimes for inland waters, sometimes for neither and sometimes for both.

In very general terms an ICC is required for the inland waterways of Europe and for inland and coastal waters of Mediterranean countries. For the coastal waters of Northern Europe the ICC is generally not required, however to all of these generalisations there are exceptions.

RYA members will find more specific information in the individual country pages.

Note: where proof of competence is required under the Merchant Shipping Regulations i.e. UK pleasure vessels exceeding both 80 GT and 24m (load line) length (see Merchant Shipping Notice (MSN) 1802) and for any vessel which is used for commercial purposes, the ICC is insufficient and it must be supported by the requisite certificate of competence.

 

[Paddingtonbear]

Probably best to do any necessary training in the condition you normally sail in.
How about getting some on board training for you and your crew(?) which would at least be tailored to your individual circumstances. That is what I am going to do when and if the boat is ever finished and also because I am especially nervous and useless.

 

[maxi77]

I have been sailing on and off (more off than on) since I was 14, thats's a long time ago now! Firstly it was on dinghies then in the mid nineties I had a cruiser for about five years before selling her and going back to dinghy sailing. I have been doing up a Centaur for the last 2 years and should launch this spring. As I am now retired I anticipate having more time to sail and and am thinking about updating my training. I did the Day Skipper theory and VHF courses in 1995. My questions are:
-Do I need to go back and do the Day Skipper theory again then the practical or can I go straight onto the practical?
-Could I miss those and go on to Coastal Skipper?
- What are the pros and cons of going abroad and doing your training in the sun? (apart from the obvious!)
I know that I am asking a difficult question as you don't know me or my abilities but any suggestions will help organise my thoughts.
Thanks

My suggestion would be to go and have a chat with one or two local suitable schools and see what they think, refresher courses rarely do you any harm and usually improve your ability.

 

[Topcat47]

Dinghy sailing is great for developing your sailing skills. Cruisers are different. I'd advise booking a tutor from a local sailing school for a couple of days and going out in the centaur with your "regular crew". SWMBO and/or a pal will do. This way you will get a refresher of the "knowledge" you gained from the old dazed kipper, you will get advice from the tutor about sailing your new acquisition and a chance to learn specific skills needed to enjoy your new toy in the waters where you intend to sail. My experience was that the actual sailing was less of a problem than handling in close quarters under power. It'll boost your confidence.

 

[Daydream believer]

We will agree to differ
I have never been asked,never been arrested, i spent 5 weeks last summer in France.

I spent 15 weeks in french waters & my wife counted 14 different customs officers on board. On the isle de groix the boat next to us even had to unpack their liferaft for customs. In ostend i have had partial searches on a number of times. Threatened with a €2000 fine for not having my name on the stern
In this country i have had my boat stripped of just about everything(1970's)
I have crossed the channel circa 130 times so a few visits have to be expected

 

[Tranona]

I spent 15 weeks in french waters & my wife counted 14 different customs officers on board. On the isle de groix the boat next to us even had to unpack their liferaft for customs. In ostend i have had partial searches on a number of times. Threatened with a €2000 fine for not having my name on the stern
In this country i have had my boat stripped of just about everything(1970's)
I have crossed the channel circa 130 times so a few visits have to be expected

That still does not mean that an ICC is required in coastal waters. Read the RYA summary posted by sailorman. The reason an ICC is required for inland is because it is the only way to get the CEVNI endorsement.

 

[onesea]

I do not think the OP is in need of advise re ICC this season..

I would agree with others get out and go sailing, speak to a local club? Read books, do some exercises for tides what ever.

Plan even the most basic of passage to remind you how to do it...

You will remember how to sail, its the parking each end that people seem to find stressful...

If then after a few outings you think you are not doing well, I would consider finding an instructor for a day to give you some lessons in the area you feel necessary...

Although you might find a carefully selected friend or fellow club member might come sailing for the same effect....

The more you learn about sailing the better you become, so ideally yes go and spend lots of time and money on sailing instruction you will be a better more competent sailor for it.

Just remember that we each take what we want from sailing we are all still learning... So if some one is more learned than you does it matter? If the knowledge you have means you enjoy the sailing you want to do?