Advice on stack pack

xeitosaphil said:
Sail bag Zip runs full length from mast to outhaul and beyond, 6” past end of sail bag Aft.
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Thanks for all the other ideas.

Seen a few like this, and would make doing it up easier (assuming it is not failing wildly).

However will also look like some sort of handhold to the inexperienced or me when desperate!
 
I'd suggest gabbing the boom - sheeted in - is enough trouble, decent non-slip to tread on is important; I have a solar panel which allegedly has a ' non slip finish ', in reality it would do an ice-skater proud with the friction co-efficiient of teflon on ice so I insist inexperinced crews have harness lines clipped on.
 
andybussell said:
I'm replacing my boom cover for the mainsail and am considering a Doyle stack pack. Anybody had experience with these or other types. All advice gratefully received and Thanks in advance.
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Got a replace for an existing one from Crusader and have been quite impressed with the quality of it.

The stackpack makes hoisting a bit more critical - easy fopr batten ends to hook on the lazyjacks. And I would prefer to have the lazyjack lines lead aft
 
I've noticed Crusader Sails get consistenly good reports, while I note my old favourite Westaways have gone down the pan so it's Crusaders for me.

That is one example of why these forums are pure gold for gen' !
 
In heavy weather i tend to lay over the stackpack near the mast when the boat rolls. This started to tear the stitching where the lazy jacks attach, so this winter I have had the sail maker sew on large patches to avoid further damage & give me something to grab without worrying about ripping it.
 
Lazy jacks fouling the battens seem to be a common problem. I would love a stack pack but there is nowhere to attach the lazy jacks at the mast. I have looked at other boats and noticed that some have a block riveted to either side of the mast, especially double spreader masts. Single spreader masts use the spreaders either close to the mast or 6 inches outboard.

I would think that the further outboard, maybe using the flag halyard blocks, would lessen the chance of snagging the battens.

Strangely, though, I have never seen a boat rigged using these flag halyard blocks. My 346 has single spreaders and flag halyards blocks already installed so no extra hassle if I could use these. They are about two thirds outboard.

Any reason why flag halyard blocks already on the spreaders are not used for the Lazy Jacks?
 
Seajet said:
I've noticed Crusader Sails get consistenly good reports, while I note my old favourite Westaways have gone down the pan so it's Crusaders for me.

That is one example of why these forums are pure gold for gen' !
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My last two sets of sails have been Crusader, the last set now 18mnths old, was 135% Genoa, and a Fully Battened Main Sail with Rutgerson Cars, very competitive, nicely made, willing to accommodate all specs and very pleasant to deal with. Paul is the guy to speak to, really nice guy.

No connection just a satisfied customer :)

Last time I used Westaways, 5 years ago, on the last set of sails that went down for a wash and service, they went down Crisp came back Limp " Never again " :disgust:
 
BurnitBlue said:
Lazy jacks fouling the battens seem to be a common problem.
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I think it depends on how you use them / I don't seem to find that at all.

BurnitBlue said:
Any reason why flag halyard blocks already on the spreaders are not used for the Lazy Jacks?
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Personally , I don't think they would be man enough for the loads - Blocks or Spreader.
 
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BurnitBlue said:
Any reason why flag halyard blocks already on the spreaders are not used for the Lazy Jacks?
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That sounds like a good idea and would reduce the chances of the batten ends fouling. The downside might be that if you do not have the topping lift correctly set relative to the lazyjacks it is possible to inadvertently put the lazyjacks under some strain from the weight of the sail or the tension in the mainsheet when securing the boom centrally. I don't know whether such strain bearing down on the spreaders from a position near the outboard end might bend the spreaders?

Richard
 
BurnitBlue said:
Strangely, though, I have never seen a boat rigged using these flag halyard blocks. My 346 has single spreaders and flag halyards blocks already installed so no extra hassle if I could use these. They are about two thirds outboard.

Any reason why flag halyard blocks already on the spreaders are not used for the Lazy Jacks?
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I think the reason is that the height is too low. This makes the angle that the aftermost lazy jack makes with the boom too shallow and the after part of the sail is not collected. This has been a problem for us as our sail is so heavily reinforced and the after part refuses to flake. This led a large part of the sail to fall out, obscuring vision until it was manually collected and tied to the boom.

We had four lazyjacks fitted to our new stackpack, although the Kemp rule of thumb was that we didn't need them for our length of boom. Getting the aft one as close to the end of the boom as possible has made a big improvement. When I first fitted lazy jacks I also used flag halliards on the spreaders but moving them upwards was a major improvement.
 
Seajet said:
I've noticed Crusader Sails get consistenly good reports, while I note my old favourite Westaways have gone down the pan so it's Crusaders for me.
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I am put off Crusader by their pricing policy, which seems to be huge discounts at Boat Shows ... or, to put it another way, 50% surcharges if you are mug enough to order any other time. Very DFS. Nevertheless I did get a quote from them at Southampton one year, and was completely put off by the sneer with which I was corrected when I dared ask for a red sail. It's "tan", apparently. At that point he lost the sale, though I let him go on with the rest of the quote so I could get the free bag.
 
JumbleDuck said:
I am put off Crusader by their pricing policy, which seems to be huge discounts at Boat Shows ... or, to put it another way, 50% surcharges if you are mug enough to order any other time. Very DFS. Nevertheless I did get a quote from them at Southampton one year, and was completely put off by the sneer with which I was corrected when I dared ask for a red sail. It's "tan", apparently. At that point he lost the sale, though I let him go on with the rest of the quote so I could get the free bag.
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Really don't know why you bang on about this. Most sailmakers offer discounts at certain times of the year and at boat shows. Why do you pick on this company as if it is doing something out of the ordinary and bad?
 
Evidently, each has his own method and, if it works for him, who are others to question?

I say this because I was just about to write more or less the opposite of what Vyv has written. In the sense that in my opinion most of the problems with battens snagging on the lazy-jack lines stem from (1) the upper attachment is taken too high up the mast and (2) the aftermost line is taken too far towards the end of the boom!

I can understand that a heavily reinforced leech will not flake easily on its own but, does it need to? Again, IMO, the purpose of lazyjacks is, first and foremost, to contain the dropped main without having it spill all over the coachroof. Anyone who has inadvertently stepped on folds of dacron sailcloth lying on a sloping surface knows the hazard. Tidying up the folds on my dropped main is usually done after arrival when, starting from the end of the boom I pull the folded leech back as necessary while working up towards the mast. On my previous boat I would also pull the zipper closed as I progressed. On my present boat I do not yet have a stackpack and so I put on sail ties.

Regarding windage, flapping, etc., I had made mine such that, when unzipped, the part between the zipper and the full-length stiffener would fold neatly inside between the sail and the outer part of the 'bag'. There was no extra piece for the front because this integral part can be folded back into the space that I have described.

I do miss my old stackpack and I look forward to making another one.
 
Having repaired our 20 year-old stack pack countless times we had a custom one made by Saltern Sail Co at Yarmouth on Isle of Wight. Excellent service and quality. Our primary concern was dropping the main when short-handed or in bad weather or rolly seas on approaches. Our fully-battened, heavy duty main has quite a roach and with three sets of reefing lines there's quite a bulk to collect -- and it doesn't always drop neatly. Make sure the stackpack is designed with enough space to cope with a sail that may fall unevenly and with all the reefing lines in one place. Lots of tips in previous posts with extra 'custom' additions, consider them all and apply to 'why' you require a stack in the first place.
 
Thanks for the info regarding Lazy Jack attachment. I will try the flag halyard blocks with an eye on the loads and geometry when the boom swings. If it works OK I will install a permanent system.

I have also considered doing without lazy jacks and instead using lanyards from the corners of a bag to a temporary cross-bar clipped to the spinnaker track fwd and the boom end aft. This would only be used lowering the sail into a battened sail-bag.

Last year with just a normal arrangement, I lowered the main inside a crowded anchoring field. While I was on the bow about to drop the anchor I noticed I was charging backwards at speed. One of the mainsail reefing lines had hooked the engine Morse control. A gust of wind got under the main and put the engine in reverse gear and Max throttle. I was lucky I didn't hit anyone especially because it took some seconds for me to realise what had happened before I sorted it out.

This put a mainsail bag and lazy jacks to the top of my list for 2015.
 
PuffTheMagicDragon said:
Evidently, each has his own method and, if it works for him, who are others to question?

I say this because I was just about to write more or less the opposite of what Vyv has written. In the sense that in my opinion most of the problems with battens snagging on the lazy-jack lines stem from (1) the upper attachment is taken too high up the mast and (2) the aftermost line is taken too far towards the end of the boom!
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For me batten snagging is a minor problem, easily overcome by waiting a few seconds until the sail flaps. A method of overcoming it altogether is to have a light bungee attached between the aftermost lazy jack and the gooseneck. Releasing the lazyjacks from the clutch allows the aft one to be pulled forward.

However for me it is catching the mainsail with its heavily reinforced luff and leech that is most important. Ours has so much reinforcement that the lower part of the sail has only half numbers of sail slides as it won't bend more frequently. Flaking the lower half is almost impossible: we previously draped it across the boom in lemgths of a metre or more.
 
Vyv, I was not criticising or doubting what you wrote. What I was trying to say is that one tries to find a solution that addresses his problem and, if it works for him, that is the way to go. Others might find that a different approach would work better for them or even give up on the idea altogether.
 
Daydream believer said:
In heavy weather i tend to lay over the stackpack near the mast when the boat rolls. This started to tear the stitching where the lazy jacks attach, so this winter I have had the sail maker sew on large patches to avoid further damage & give me something to grab without worrying about ripping it.
Click to expand...
I was fed up with the stitching and the tape loops for the lazyjacks suffering UV and failing every few years. The last stackpack I had made the lazyjacks tie directly onto the battens via cutouts in the batten pocket. This seems to be a much stronger method of construction.
 
BurnitBlue said:
Lazy jacks fouling the battens seem to be a common problem. I would love a stack pack but there is nowhere to attach the lazy jacks at the mast. I have looked at other boats and noticed that some have a block riveted to either side of the mast, especially double spreader masts. Single spreader masts use the spreaders either close to the mast or 6 inches outboard.

I would think that the further outboard, maybe using the flag halyard blocks, would lessen the chance of snagging the battens.

Strangely, though, I have never seen a boat rigged using these flag halyard blocks. My 346 has single spreaders and flag halyards blocks already installed so no extra hassle if I could use these. They are about two thirds outboard.

Any reason why flag halyard blocks already on the spreaders are not used for the Lazy Jacks?
Click to expand...

You do not need to be outboard of the mast although mine are 6inches out from the mast on the second spreader.
The lazy jacks, boom & mast form a triangle. Whilst the sail is inside this triangle it can snag. the easy way to stop this is to head into the wind so the sail flogs very gently. As you see a batten in the sail coming near a line just wait a second until it flogs away from the line & hoist a foot or so & you are clear. It really is a simple process. This is no different if the lazy jack was next to the mast or at the end of the spreader
 
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