Advice on possible project

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MarionS

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Hi all,

Hubby and I are looking at taking on a project yacht that needs a lot of work. We're told this is a Bruce Roberts 27 but it doesn't look like any we've seen online.

Any thoughts?IMG_20200117_213615.jpg
 
I have no idea what kind of boat it is bu then does it really matter? It is obviously fairly solid I hope GRP. Much depends on the price of course as to whether it is a viable project or not. Expensive things to fix/replace will be engine, mast and rigging and sails. So check these out closely. I think the outside look will soon be improved with lashings of oxalic acid or even bleach on the mould. Of course the amount of work you do on it will depend on your own demands. You may be able to make quite a serviceable boat from it. If not concourse de elegance standard. Most people here will say look for a decent boat in good condition. There will still be lots of work on going in any boat. However I am a bit of a sucker (in my dreams) for old boats and the prioce may be persuasive. ol'will
 
Bruce Roberts are conctucted by individuals in GRP, steel or concrete, using the well know Bruce Roberts design plans and therefore the quality varies a lot. The yacht designs are very good and Bruce Roberts yachts have very good reputation for as long as they have been constructed as per plans. The quality of the interiors vary a lot. I do not know if this particular yacht is a Bruce Roberts (I though Bruce Roberts designs start from 29ft upwards) but what ever it is, it needs a careful survey to determine condition, level of work needed and potential expenditure. I had a blue water Bruce Roberts many years ago.
 
Could she possibly be a 25 rather than a 27, as per the 25 in the link below?
Bruce Roberts Adventurer 25 Trailer Sailer - Fine Line Boat Plans & Designs

Have you been on board and had a good look around yet?
The mast in the photo doesn't look too bad; do you know how old the boat / rig is?
What engine does she have? The Roberts 25 drawings show a saildrive, but this one appears to have a shaft drive.
It is possible that she will very quickly look quite appealing after a pressure washer is applied to her exterior.
Re the pale blue stripes around the windows, and just below what could be the hull / deck join, is this just masking tape? If it is, do you know why it was put on in the first place?

If the engine is in reasonable condition, similarly the rig and sails, and the outfit down below is not too trashed, and they are asking very little / next to nothing for her, then yes, she could be a viable project.
Just remember that almost all boat restoration projects invariably seem to cost twice as much as initially budgeted, and take three times as long to complete......
Coincidentally there is an excellent thread currently active in the Scuttlebutt Forum discussing the restoration of old boats -
Doing old grp boats up
 
Bajansailor said:
Could she possibly be a 25 rather than a 27, as per the 25 in the link below?
Bruce Roberts Adventurer 25 Trailer Sailer - Fine Line Boat Plans & Designs

Have you been on board and had a good look around yet?
The mast in the photo doesn't look too bad; do you know how old the boat / rig is?
What engine does she have? The Roberts 25 drawings show a saildrive, but this one appears to have a shaft drive.
It is possible that she will very quickly look quite appealing after a pressure washer is applied to her exterior.
Re the pale blue stripes around the windows, and just below what could be the hull / deck join, is this just masking tape? If it is, do you know why it was put on in the first place?

If the engine is in reasonable condition, similarly the rig and sails, and the outfit down below is not too trashed, and they are asking very little / next to nothing for her, then yes, she could be a viable project.
Just remember that almost all boat restoration projects invariably seem to cost twice as much as initially budgeted, and take three times as long to complete......
Coincidentally there is an excellent thread currently active in the Scuttlebutt Forum discussing the restoration of old boats -
Doing old grp boats up
Click to expand...

I agree with you Baijansailor. I had the same link and I think it is a Bruce Roberts 25 Version B
 
As others have said, have you been inside yet? If not, get in there and sit for 20 minutes or so just looking. Engine? Assume the worst. If you are a kitchen table mechanic you'll know what to do.

Making the interior work/look presentable is in many ways harder than the exterior where a quick scrub will work wonders.

Another thing, in this kind of transaction any sums involved really should be 'token' at best.
 
The sail is laying across the deck so that will be shot to start with. So that will cost £600 straight off. the condition shows that it has been dumped for ages so the interior will be in a poor state & possibly has water in the bilges demonstrating leaks. the engine will have been laying rusting as well. Why on earth bother with something like that when you can get far better boats for peanuts.?
 
Generally speaking it is cheaper to buy a good boat than it is to fix one up to the same level as "the good one"
If this boat type is an unknown than it is probably of low second hand value.
Fixing up a well known brand is better than an unknown.

The only reason I can think of when fixing up is a good idea is when you are starting a boating career and plan on keep on buying bigger boats.
Then start really small (but well known) put some money in to it, learn a lot.

Then you will have made the expensive mistakes on a small scale.
 
Hi all,

Thanks for your input. I'm confused, though. Would we not need to know what yacht it is to be able to buy parts or to insure her?

The GRP has lots of little blisters over the deck. Don't know if this is possible to sand down or if there is going to be a lot of work / expense. The headsail is shredded, mast, boom and rigging looked ok and the prop turned manually.

The chap who owns her has no idea how old she is and may well be wrong about the make / model. He bought her as a project and then left her out in the West coast of Scotland elements! Hubby was on his own when he had his first look so couldn't measure the length. That might help us a bit.

I'll have a look at the restoration link as there's bound to be lots of useful stuff there! Thanks for the heads up.


Marion
 
Daydream believer said:
The sail is laying across the deck so that will be shot to start with. So that will cost £600 straight off. the condition shows that it has been dumped for ages so the interior will be in a poor state & possibly has water in the bilges demonstrating leaks. the engine will have been laying rusting as well. Why on earth bother with something like that when you can get far better boats for peanuts.?
Click to expand...
+1 - Its a buyers market at present and for all the trouble and unseen problems this one poses you are far better walking away and paying for something that has been cared for, probably at a fraction of what this may cost to put right. A romantic idea but probably an expensive one!
 
From that picture the hull looks fine and could be transformed in just a couple of days scrubbing. Mast looks good and the furling gear may well be serviceable. It doesn't look any worse than any boat would look after standing on the hard for a year or so. As others have said the key questions are the state of the interior and the engine. I would suggest if the engine isn't working then you should look elsewhere.

Tidying up a boat like that you won't save any money over buying one that does not need the work doing but you can have a lot of fun doing it yourself if that is what you are looking for. It can be great fun and a good learning experience.
 
Daydream believer said:
The sail is laying across the deck so that will be shot to start with. So that will cost £600 straight off. the condition shows that it has been dumped for ages so the interior will be in a poor state & possibly has water in the bilges demonstrating leaks. the engine will have been laying rusting as well. Why on earth bother with something like that when you can get far better boats for peanuts.?
Click to expand...
The sail might be replaced cheaply with secondhand from a racing boat.

But the cost of fixing everything will add up.
I would suggest attempting to work out a budget.
Then go and look at some 'ready to go' boats for a range of prices. Go to a brokerage where they've got boats on site and window shop.
 
I assume the boat is a freeby? If so and you want to get involved in a project go for it but bear in mind it has no value and even when done up it will be worth very little.
 
MarionS said:
Hi all,

Hubby and I are looking at taking on a project yacht that needs a lot of work. We're told this is a Bruce Roberts 27 but it doesn't look like any we've seen online.

Any thoughts?View attachment 83762
Click to expand...


Any mention of a project brings out the moaners but many are completed with great success. On the whole the moaners do have valid points and you should carefully think about your level of skill, time and enthusiasm.
That particular boat would be a much more attractive proposition if it were on a usable trailer.
 
Any mention of a project brings out the moaners

Put me down as a moaner. :)

Unless the boat is practically being given away and you've got somewhere to park it while you're working, forget it. Bruce Roberts? Is it Ferro? If so, again, forget it; it's VERY hard to make a small ferro boat that isn't too heavy to go reasonably.

OTOH, if it's free, or nearly, it's GRP, the engine works and the inside isn't rotten, it could be an interesting project - as long as you like projects. Just remember that the way to price a project is to add up the worst case scenario of everything you need and double it. Now add a good-sized contingency. Do the same with your time. You'll still have a boat that isn't worth a lot. Does it still make sense?

Sails can probably be had second hand but, unless you know how old the standing rigging is, you'll have to budget for that. New cushions? Can you make them yourself? If not, they aren't cheap.

To my mind, anyone who takes on a serious project is a nutter. OTOH, the world does need such nutters...
 
SvenH said:
Generally speaking it is cheaper to buy a good boat than it is to fix one up to the same level as "the good one". If this boat type is an unknown than it is probably of low second hand value.
Click to expand...

Agree entirely. I guess it depends on what your preferred hobby is. If it is a boat building project then fine.

But if your preferred hobby is sailing, then avoid. Buy something that is in current sailing trim and you can be sailing safely in the Spring, and do minor improvements over the years. Can buy seaworthy, in commission small yachts for peanuts at present.
 
I have a project boat that I bought for £400: it took me a winter to get to the sailing it stage by dint of hard work and about double the money I paid to buy it...... That’s for a Hurley 18 and a lump of the money I paid to get it working was for a functioning outboard.
Since then she’s cost about three times the purchase price to keep per year, either on a club mooring or a commercial mooring. The headline price for a club mooring is cheap: £200 a year. But add in club membership, dinghy, parking and servicing the mooring it’s not a lot cheaper than a commercial mooring which includes parking and water taxi.
I’m not a moaner: far from it as I enjoy messing about on my Hurley. I’m just flagging up that it’s not the purchase price nor the cost of restoration that will hit the pocket hardest: it’s the on going costs of owning a boat. That’s the reason behind the existence of many project boats: they’ve been abandoned by the owners because it wasn’t the cheap route into boating that they’d imagined. Equally, there’s many project boats out there whose owners have become too old or infirm to keep the boat maintained and their families have no interest in the boat.
If you’ve got a practical turn of mind and understand that you’re not looking at a cheap entry into boating, then go for it. Otherwise, I’d say you’d do better to look for a sail away boat in a slightly higher price bracket.
 
You should be being paid to take it on. In other words it has negative value. So the buyer could say " I will pay the next year's storage costs" and you take ownership now for £1, or more likeley the boatyard ( who presumably are no longer being paid by the owner or his heirs )could say " you can store it here for 18 months, but only pay for 12 months - up front " In neither case should you pay the current owner anything bar £1 to mak e it a proper contract.
 
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