lw395
Well-Known Member
I did wonder if 'adding a diode pack' really meant adding another rectifier pack to the three-phase of the alternator. Which is actually a valid route, but I've never seen it on a boat.
Advice on my battery charging arrangements
- Thread starter cpedw
- Start date
matthewriches
Well-Known Member
Hi,
It meant adding the users choice of diode pack, available in various guises by different manufacturers, using different technologies depending on cost and end user requirements. Whether a diode box, as used on huge numbers of boats, and still sold and fitted, even today or the newer lossless devices which are becoming more popular for replacements in systems where the old diode packs are failing or just generally being upgraded.
I’m sure you’ll agree, you’d ordinerially remove and decommission B+ connection from the alternator and strap B+ to the Diode pack or other variant of this device to give a split output from the device to give isolated charging outputs... simple really but unnecessary for a non technical end user to worry about.....
I don’t bore people with science generally as it confuses non technically minded customers who just want something that works.
It meant adding the users choice of diode pack, available in various guises by different manufacturers, using different technologies depending on cost and end user requirements. Whether a diode box, as used on huge numbers of boats, and still sold and fitted, even today or the newer lossless devices which are becoming more popular for replacements in systems where the old diode packs are failing or just generally being upgraded.
I’m sure you’ll agree, you’d ordinerially remove and decommission B+ connection from the alternator and strap B+ to the Diode pack or other variant of this device to give a split output from the device to give isolated charging outputs... simple really but unnecessary for a non technical end user to worry about.....
I don’t bore people with science generally as it confuses non technically minded customers who just want something that works.
I did wonder if 'adding a diode pack' really meant adding another rectifier pack to the three-phase of the alternator. Which is actually a valid route, but I've never seen it on a boat.
No idea why you'd want to raise such a shameful incident on here, as part of a battery thread
As mentioned before by other forum members, you seem to have elected yourself as the font of all electrical knowledge on this forum. Now I’m not no moderator but your behaviour is that of a self-righteous, obnoxious, know it all. Referring to other people’s comnents on a discussion forum as “nonsense” is not required or well thought of. I’ll happily admit my faults and learn from on them. Such as when I hit the dock wall causing 2 grazes on the port side and then gunning it out of the lock gates at WOT, having been told by you that there was no speed restriction. You then took the helm downstairs and continued from there and ignored the radio call from lime house telling us to slow down. Remember, it’s all on CCTV.
No handbag match here but everybody makes mistakes, errors of judgement or just bad decisions. Boat ownership should not be of of any superiorness and I’ll again, happily admit that I’ve started my boat owning career and I’ll make mistakes and learn from them eventually working towards a commercially endorsed RYA certificate.
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BabaYaga
Well-Known Member
To the OP:
As already pointed out, there should be no need to install neither VSR nor low loss splitter, as you already have the combining relay, presumably controlled by alternator D+? Perfectly adequate, I have had the same for over 10 years.
My first advice would be that you find out if you really cannot get more than 14,0V if you let the alternator charge the batteries, when they are already fully charged. You should be able to see around 14,4V – if not, I think installing an external regulator might be worthwhile. The installation is really not that complicated (I use an Adverc, which requires the same operation).
Second advice would be to install more solar. If deck space makes more permanent panels problematic, I have found the type with several small rigid panels that fold up to briefcase size pack very handy (similar, but not the same):
https://www.svb24.com/en/flyweight-solar-module-kit-120-w.html
As already pointed out, there should be no need to install neither VSR nor low loss splitter, as you already have the combining relay, presumably controlled by alternator D+? Perfectly adequate, I have had the same for over 10 years.
My first advice would be that you find out if you really cannot get more than 14,0V if you let the alternator charge the batteries, when they are already fully charged. You should be able to see around 14,4V – if not, I think installing an external regulator might be worthwhile. The installation is really not that complicated (I use an Adverc, which requires the same operation).
Second advice would be to install more solar. If deck space makes more permanent panels problematic, I have found the type with several small rigid panels that fold up to briefcase size pack very handy (similar, but not the same):
https://www.svb24.com/en/flyweight-solar-module-kit-120-w.html
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
You are a liar. I told you to slow down repeatedly. You threw a strop when i shouted and swore at you when you refused to get back on the correct side of the river and handed the helm over to me. here was no call from Limehouse marina telling me to slow down, why would there be ? Post the CCTV.
As for know it all behavior, you are the one that often posts on here about your extensive qualifications, experience and knowledge. Remember, i know you and i know just how vast your experience is, or rather isn't.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Paul
Suggest you and Mathew delete all the posts about your adventures on the Thames, go to the pub and buy eachother a pint.
You will both feel better for it and you won't look like plonkers on here!
Suggest you and Mathew delete all the posts about your adventures on the Thames, go to the pub and buy eachother a pint.
You will both feel better for it and you won't look like plonkers on here!
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
No idea why he decided to include the post about the London trip, can't see how that's relevant to the thread, or even the forum. But as it was posted, i had to respond and correct the errors. Don't think the pub is on the cards somehow;
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Perhaps still better to get it out of the public domain, whatever the rights and wrongs.
ghostlymoron
Well-Known Member
I've no idea what all this gunning engine, slamming lock gates and exceeding speed limits is all about . Sounds like some personal,issue with rainbow Paul who I've found gives good advice about electrics (I ASSUME he's a professional).
My knowledge of electrics is basic bout I do know that there is a type of diode splitter with low loss so they are by no means redundant and are in some ways superior to VSRs. Also I don't think that increasing battery capacity is much use without the means to charge them. I'm not a fan of running the engine just to charge battery but it is simple.
My knowledge of electrics is basic bout I do know that there is a type of diode splitter with low loss so they are by no means redundant and are in some ways superior to VSRs. Also I don't think that increasing battery capacity is much use without the means to charge them. I'm not a fan of running the engine just to charge battery but it is simple.
Balbas
Well-Known Member
Personally I wandered into this thread looking for some advice on *my* battery setup, but have greatly enjoyed the diversion into 'ming-mong ping-pong' and have settled down with a big bucket of popcorn to watch the entertainment. So don't you go spoiling the fun....
matthewriches
Well-Known Member
Correct on both points. Running an engine to charge batteries can be ok depending on the size of the engine and the load the alternator may put on it. Running a big V8 diesel with a little 100 amp alternator wouldn’t be justified whereby running a little Yanmar 10hp maybe could be justified.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Try the Lounge or Brexit if you are looking for entertainment (of a kind!)
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
You assume correctly :encouragement:
You're right again. The old diode packs suffered badly from voltage loss. This often meant poorly charged batteries and is one of the reasons alternator regulators etc became so popular. Back in the day, i fitted many diodes, i wouldn't touch one with a barge pole today.
You also mention a low loss type, glad you used the term "low loss", as opposed to the incorrect term of "lossless" that has been used in this thread. Devices such as the Victron ArgoFET (other brands are available) are such low loss devices. They are not diode packs, but replace them. I think even the most technically challenged boat owner would understand the difference between lots of voltage loss and very little.
There are some installations where an inexpensive and simple VSR do the job well enough and some where something else is required. I'm currently planning a major electrical refurb for a 16m vessel with twin engines, bow and stern thrusters, a large bank of solar panels, shore power, a generator, an inverter and six separate battery banks. I don't think a VSR will cut it
It's all about balance. You need enough batteries to meet your power consumption (preferably for at least 48 hours), then you need a way of putting it all back in the batteries. For sail boats (generally speaking) solar is currently King. If you have a mobo it's less important, as you'll be running the engine a lot anyway, but a lot of bigger mobos have generators, partly to save running the main engines to charge the batteries and partly because they often have a lot of 24v equipment onboard. I recently serviced a pair of very large mobo engines that drank 6-8 litres of fuel at idle, with no load, you wouldn't want those running just to charge the batteries. But it also had a 13kw generator (enough to power a modest house), driven by a 3 cyl diesel engine
