Advice on buying a yacht without a broker?

[maby]

That is still not definitive title - only a registered record of title. As there is no legal requirement to register any change in ownership, title could still be with somebody other than the name on the register.

You are right that it can give a record of any charges against the boat, but again there is no legal requirement to register a charge, although it might be difficult to enforce if not registered.

Indeed - the situation is really quite unsatisfactory - in many cases you are spending sums of money comparable with the price of a house, but with far less security in the purchase! Add to that the fact that many boats are left unattended on rivers for long periods, and it's a miracle that there are not more cases of theft and fraudulent sale!

 

[Tranona]

Not surprising really as boats are very visible objects and difficult to disguise or hide - particularly seagoing yachts. Different with trailable power boats which are more like cars in that they can get "lost" more easily.

Although not as "secure" as fixed property such as land and buildings, the documents normally available for yachts are far superior to cars, which can equally have high values - hence the independent checking mechanisms such as HPI.

 

[ithet]

As it seems you have had the survey and agreed the price, I'm not sure why you need to bother with further deposit? You have already shown vendor that you are serious and spent money - he has little to loose now. You only need copies or to note details from the documentation - final settlement will be subject to their delivery. Personally I think 10% in these circumstances far to much.
So, make sure you have sight of the documentation before purchase, or record the details. Perform your checks - confirm registration details with MCA (they will confirm ownership over phone) check for any loans (RYA will advise) and talk to previous owner etc. Also, get present mooring/beth owner to confirm that they hold no debt and will allow the boat to be taken away. This should all only take a couple of days now.
When you are happy meet owner with your witness, get documents, sign BOS and hand over a bank cheque - do this in vendors bank if he is worried.
Then you have ownership immediatly and he has the money.

This is how I purchased my boat privately - we concluded the deal on board and I sailed away!

 

[chinita]

Confused!

Deposit should be paid 'subject to survey'.

Survey has taken place and you are happy.

If I were Vendor I would be asking for full amount - not just the deposit.

Vendor has shown you documentation which seems in order.

What else are you waiting for?

 

[Ruffles]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned but there is an excellent book called "Buying Your First Sailing Cruiser. If I remember right it even has approved forms for copying. Well worth buying.

 

[shaunksb]

Vendor happy with this but asked that the deposit be released to him at the moment of 'acceptance' after survey and subsequent negotiations.

We have now had survey and negotiations and the vendor has asked for his deposit.

So the Vendor has made a concession to allow you to pay deposit to a third party until you have accepted the survey.

Now you want to go back on what you have agreed?


He's not Sicilian is he..............?


.

 

[jonic]

Blimey what a mess.

I see your point-very clearly-but If I were the vendor I might now be wondering if I were being conned.

No deposit, moving the goalposts as you go and then asking him to send his title docs to a friend of yours and someone he has no contract or safeguard with?

Your actions are probably making him as jittery as you are becoming. I think you need to go and meet him, deposit at the ready and examine the documents at the same time.

Hope it all goes well.

Here's how I do it, and why.

 

[longjohnsilver]

Confused!

Deposit should be paid 'subject to survey'.

Survey has taken place and you are happy.

If I were Vendor I would be asking for full amount - not just the deposit.

Vendor has shown you documentation which seems in order.

What else are you waiting for?

Exactly, why is a deposit needed, just meet, check the documentation and pay in full then take ownership of the boat.

If you're not happy for any reason then why pay anything till you are?

 

[PeterGibbs]

If you are that worried use a pukka solicitor.

How much is peace of mind worth to you? Perhaps £200? Then brief a solicitor forthwith and let him handle the transaction and monies. A willing and able vendor will have no argument with this - why should he? A broker is no substitute.

Don't please lose sight of the first principle of buying anything - until you are TOTALLY satisfied with provenance, condition of goods etc surrender nothing. The vendor should give you sight of all relevant papers and prove his capability to sell you the vessel, willingly.

Let there be none of this "put up 10% in cash and I'll let you see some history" You want to be satisfied on all fronts before you part with a penny.

Don't get fussed about signing a purchase contract - it's not going to be enforced if the vendor has not met all reasonable conditions.

So list what you want to see, send it to the vendor, arrange a meeting and look it all over carefully. Then comes the survey.

Genuine vendors always seek to meet reasonable expectations of buyers. If this is not the case for you, walk away.

PWG

 

[Tranona]

How much is peace of mind worth to you? Perhaps £200? Then brief a solicitor forthwith and let him handle the transaction and monies. A willing and able vendor will have no argument with this - why should he? A broker is no substitute.


PWG

A broker will be perfectly satisfactory - after all this is what they do for a living. A solicitor may not be so useful unless he is just acting as a stakeholder or running an escrow account as he may not have the experience to check the documents unless he is familiar with the process.

 

[maby]

Well, a deposit is commonly exchanged early on - when we were negotiating the purchase of a second-hand yacht through a broker a few months ago, he took a 10% deposit that was held in his client account prior to us commissioning the survey. As it happened, issues arose in the survey and we were unable to reach an agreement with the seller, so we pulled out and the broker refunded the deposit.

If the sale had run through to completion, I would have expected the seller to deposit all the ship's documents with the broker, sign the contract and Bill of Sale, again leaving them with the broker who would get us to also sign them. Then on the completion day, we would have given the broker the balance which would also go into his client account and, once he was satisfied that the full purchase price had cleared into his accounts, he would have given us all the documents plus the keys. That is how it has worked before.

Look, in the majority of cases everything goes smoothly and all this pissing around with brokers or solicitors is an unnecessary waste of money. Our recent experience shows where it is valuable. We looked at a boat that seemed in nice condition, made an offer that was accepted, and paid a deposit to hold the boat pending a survey. The survey threw up issues which we found unacceptable, and we were unable to agree a resolution with the seller- who became quite hostile about it. We were very pleased to have the broker as the middle man, refereeing the conversation. He reviewed the discussions, agreed that we had grounds to pull out and refunded the deposit - if we had been doing this privately and had handed the deposit directly to the seller, we might have found it a lot more difficult to pull out and get our money back.

 

[jonic]

Well, a deposit is commonly exchanged early on - when we were negotiating the purchase of a second-hand yacht through a broker a few months ago, he took a 10% deposit that was held in his client account prior to us commissioning the survey. As it happened, issues arose in the survey and we were unable to reach an agreement with the seller, so we pulled out and the broker refunded the deposit.

If the sale had run through to completion, I would have expected the seller to deposit all the ship's documents with the broker, sign the contract and Bill of Sale, again leaving them with the broker who would get us to also sign them. Then on the completion day, we would have given the broker the balance which would also go into his client account and, once he was satisfied that the full purchase price had cleared into his accounts, he would have given us all the documents plus the keys. That is how it has worked before.

Look, in the majority of cases everything goes smoothly and all this pissing around with brokers or solicitors is an unnecessary waste of money. Our recent experience shows where it is valuable. We looked at a boat that seemed in nice condition, made an offer that was accepted, and paid a deposit to hold the boat pending a survey. The survey threw up issues which we found unacceptable, and we were unable to agree a resolution with the seller- who became quite hostile about it. We were very pleased to have the broker as the middle man, refereeing the conversation. He reviewed the discussions, agreed that we had grounds to pull out and refunded the deposit - if we had been doing this privately and had handed the deposit directly to the seller, we might have found it a lot more difficult to pull out and get our money back.

That is a very clear description of what a professional broker also does apart from market the yacht. He protects both parties with a pre-agreed and clear written framework.

I have so many times seen apparently decent people reneging on a handshake in the cockpit.