ADVICE NEEDED PLEASE!

[fien397]

Im looking a buying a boat for a restoration project. its a "classic 28ft broads cruiser by bell boats of brundal", built mid 1950's. i have a fair knowledge of GRP boats, but have know idea about stuctural issues on old wooden boats. Part of the advert reads "hull: pitch pine and mahogany planking on oak frames with mahogany transom. Will require caulking and refinished once structural checks completed". any infomation greatfully recieved wiether its about the boat itself or issues with wooden boats in general as i dont want to bite off more than i can chew, so to speak. ive considered a survey but the boats only £2500, so is it worth it?. Many thanks, Tony

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[Capt_Marlinspike]

Sounds like a well constructed boat, but I would be cautious however, if you have no experience in wooden boats and it needs a lot of work. Caulking is a tough task, if you have not done it before you will need help with the technique.

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[graham]

I am not familiar with the boat but have owned and refitted wooden boats in the past.

Possibly you could hire a local boatbuilder( some retired shipwrights do odd jobs)to assist you in having a look at her.

This will be cheaper and probably more usefull than a survey for a restoration project.The boat may be only £2.500 but you will need at least double that again to refit her if you do all the work yourself.Its not unusual for people to spend double the boats worth on retoration.

The edges of the planks sometimes go soft due to water ingress and this causes the caulking to keep working itself out.

Pitch pine is very durable but mahogany is unreliable and can rot very quickly if water gets into the end grain so check all the ends of the planks the edges of the transom etc.

Look at the frames inside.If the odd one is cracked it can be replaced or a "doubler "fitted alongside.But if lots are gone then it needs a serious look at.

The decks and cabin structure can be suspect ,check around all corners and joints and look at the beams underneath. The deck beams may look and feel ok but check right up where the decking is joined down for signs of rot.

Have you put a post on the Classic boat forum?They will probably have more detailed information on the design.


It has got to be a labour of love as you are unlikely to make any financial profit ,projects like this can be highly rewarding for the right person but only in terms of personal satisfaction.

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[mikesharp]

Have a word with Hunters Yard Ludham. They run the Norfolk Heritage Fleet and have a wealth of knowledge about classic wooden broads yachts. www.huntersyard.co.uk.

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[bedouin]

I'll give you some advice - "Don't do it!" /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

More seriously - I would say a proper survey is essential before buying a wooden boat. Otherwise you don't know whether it requires just a tidy up and recaulk, or serious structural work. I would get a survey and then take it to a boat-builder for a quotation before parting with my dosh.

I'm not an expert on wooden boats of that size, but I know restoring them can be expensive. As an example Gypsy Moth IV is described as being "basically structurally sound" but still requires >£100,000 worth of work.



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[TonyBrooks]

Having watched our carpenters working on Ex broads cruisers that we bought into a Thames hire fleet in the late 60s, I would also say do not do it.

I saw too much softwood where it should not be. Chipboard and an early form of OSB used as floor boards and also a a tendancy to fit the planks top the ribs with bent over (clenched) galvanised nails. All the Thames or Coastal built wooden boats used copper nails and roves.

I also saw transoms that appeared to be mahogany turn out to be plywood.

You owe it gto yourself to take every precaution to ensurer you do not get landed with a masive bill for timber - even if you can do the work yourself.

I hope the BSS has sorted out the worst examples, but theer was a major difference between the Broads mechanical/gas/electrical instalations and what was then required by the Thams Launch Regulations - I was not impressed.

None of this means your boat is a bad one - I do not know it or the builders - but take care.

Tony Brooks

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[oldsaltoz]

G'day Tony,

Owning a wooden boat is not for the faint hearted, at any cost, even if they give them away and they do from time to time.

People who own and operate wooden boats are your run of the mill sailors; they are dedicated enthusiasts who spend most of there time fixing this or that, and re caulking a wooden boat is more work than building one because 40 % is on the underside and you know haw tough that be on a back even in top condition.

Walk away with your sanity and present lifestyle intact would be my advice. Unless of course you are one of the wooden boat people and you know what you are letting yourself in for.

I love timber boats and have a great respect and admiration for anyone who owns a wooden boat, but having worked on them many times, I must admit I tend to avoid them when asked to "have a look at this little problem I have".

Avagoodweekend......



<hr width=100% size=1> Old Salt Oz /forums/images/icons/cool.gif Growing old is unavoidable. However, growing up is still optional.

 

[Born_Free]

As a wooden boat owner & a surveyor, I'd say proceed with caution, and no I'm not touting for business. There have been some superbly built broads cruisers, but as one of the others has said there have been some pretty suspect ones as well. I've also come across plywood transoms, with admittedly a mahogany final veneer, looks pretty, but................
If you want to do some cursory checks yourself, before deciding whether to have a survey or not, an investment of about £25 will buy you a basic moisture meter with which you can make some exploratory tests on the vessel from the inside, with the owners permission of course, which will give you an idea as to whether the basic structures, frames etc are sound or not.
If the owner refuses permission, don't walk away, RUN.
Obviously I wouldn't buy a boat without a survey, and in fact I had mine pre-purchase surveyed by a colleague lest I forgot to take my rose tinted glasses off!
If the vessel's sound and you go ahead with the restoration with all its inevitable trials & tribulations, the reward when you first sail her is I promise you immeasurable.
Good Luck

<hr width=100% size=1>I have nothing to declare, except my genius
(Sorry Oscar)

 

[Alpha22]

Is this the one?

If so, I have been 'moored' alongside for the last year in the same barn!

D.

<hr width=100% size=1>Last weekend was shopping darling........ so this weekend is boating. (Duck!)

 

[fien397]

WOW, what a great response. ive had in excess of 30 emails now, and thats before counting the posts and PM's on here. just like to say thanks to everyone here, and i am trying to reply to all of you. at least i know where to start first, i think, )

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[fien397]

thats the boat alright

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[oldharry]

If you do not know anything about how wooden boats are put together then you are in for a major learning experience if you take this one on. And before you do, take someone along who knows wooden boats well. A lot of the faults that can develop in a hull as old as this are not obvious to the unskilled eye. Then without these skills you will not know how to get things undone without doing a lot of damage, or the correct way of putting them back together again.

If you have access to a boatyard which deals with wooden boats, and are on very good terms with their boatbuilder, and if he is willing to come and have a look and advise, or occasionally help you, then this is a good way to learn.

But without professional back up at every stage I would definitely think you are taking on too much.

If you want to get in to wooden boats then start on something small, which will not matter too much (or cost too much!) if things go wrong, or you find your interest in boats is using them rather than working on them!

Its often said there are 2 types of sailors: those who actually use their boats, and those whose real interest is in working on them. GRP is for the people who want to go sailing, timber for those who want to do the work.....!

So why the heck have I just bought yet another wooden boat, Just when I wanted to go sailing.....?!


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