A_7
Well-Known Member
I would go straight from Yarmouth to Brixham. A nice day sail and visit Weymouth etc on your way back.
Advice for crossing Lyme Bay
- Thread starter Seven Spades
- Start date
dratsea
Well-Known Member
If you get the right weather Lyme Regis is worth a visit, buoy outside or dry out in the harbour. And if you need any bargain chandlery the local garage will lend you a car for a couple of hours to drive round to Jimmy Green in Beer.
billmacfarlane
Well-Known Member
Paul, looking at your profile I see that your boat is very new and I'd guess by your question that you're still learning what it's capabilities are. I can't see anything in your profile about your own personal sailing experience. To answer the first part of your question, the average time for a crossing of Lyme Bay is dependent on a whole host of factors, not least wind speed and direction. If I tell you that from memory it's just under 50 miles from Portland Bill to Dartmouth, then if you reckon on sailing at 5.5 knots in roughly a straight line, then you'll be able to calculate the time it will take. Likewise if you motor in light winds, you'll need to know what speed your boat motors at comfortably to work the time taken out. As others have said it's impossible to give you an absolute answer.
I'm a bit perturbed by the second part of your question. Whether to go or not in a F6 is a personal decision based on your and your boat's capabilities, and also what your crew are like. You don't say what wind direction. A west F6 would give you a fair old slog whereas an east F6 would be an entirely different proposition. If there's very little wind surely you'd motor or motor sail ? If it's your first crossing read very carefully what the pilot book says regarding rounding Portland Bill, especially if you do it when there's a F6 blowing from any direction.
I personally tend to do the West Country cruise in 2 hops. Hop 1 is from Chichester to Studland Bay where I anchor for the night. This usually takes me about 6 hours. Then from Studland Bay to either Dartmouth or Brixham giving Portland Bill about 4 miles clearance. I reckon on 12-13 hours for this hop assuming I don't have to throw in any tacks. Those times are for my boat and yours despite, being the same length, will be different.
There are no absolute ideal conditions for the trip. Hope this helps and you make it and have a good holiday. There's some beautiful places to explore.
I'm a bit perturbed by the second part of your question. Whether to go or not in a F6 is a personal decision based on your and your boat's capabilities, and also what your crew are like. You don't say what wind direction. A west F6 would give you a fair old slog whereas an east F6 would be an entirely different proposition. If there's very little wind surely you'd motor or motor sail ? If it's your first crossing read very carefully what the pilot book says regarding rounding Portland Bill, especially if you do it when there's a F6 blowing from any direction.
I personally tend to do the West Country cruise in 2 hops. Hop 1 is from Chichester to Studland Bay where I anchor for the night. This usually takes me about 6 hours. Then from Studland Bay to either Dartmouth or Brixham giving Portland Bill about 4 miles clearance. I reckon on 12-13 hours for this hop assuming I don't have to throw in any tacks. Those times are for my boat and yours despite, being the same length, will be different.
There are no absolute ideal conditions for the trip. Hope this helps and you make it and have a good holiday. There's some beautiful places to explore.
starboard
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Ignore it.
Read his profile and pick up on a couple of points
NICE WINE, RNLI 2nd COXWAIN (ARRUN CLASS)
He's trying to be clever, like he never asked advice in his life.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry if I have ruffled your feathers Lakesailor!!!! Having spent the past 40 years messing around in boats, both giving advice and indeed listening to advise my self I will be the first to admit no one know's everything,even today I will continue to make mistakes and the words of others are at times advice well listened to...........However the context of this question to me rang alarm bells, as I stated previouslly, surely if one is competant enough to contemplate that passage, the information you must have to make it in a safe and expedicous way, distance, tides, weather, known boat speed and performance in certain conditions, with all these at hand and understood then why ask the question????? it was a little like asking how long is a piece of string........yes at times I may come across a little gruff, but then at sea I do not suffer fools gladly....you rarelly get a second chance when things go wrong....trust me, I have brought too many home in bodybags to know the differance!!! and that is not nice!!
Paul.
Ignore it.
Read his profile and pick up on a couple of points
NICE WINE, RNLI 2nd COXWAIN (ARRUN CLASS)
He's trying to be clever, like he never asked advice in his life.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry if I have ruffled your feathers Lakesailor!!!! Having spent the past 40 years messing around in boats, both giving advice and indeed listening to advise my self I will be the first to admit no one know's everything,even today I will continue to make mistakes and the words of others are at times advice well listened to...........However the context of this question to me rang alarm bells, as I stated previouslly, surely if one is competant enough to contemplate that passage, the information you must have to make it in a safe and expedicous way, distance, tides, weather, known boat speed and performance in certain conditions, with all these at hand and understood then why ask the question????? it was a little like asking how long is a piece of string........yes at times I may come across a little gruff, but then at sea I do not suffer fools gladly....you rarelly get a second chance when things go wrong....trust me, I have brought too many home in bodybags to know the differance!!! and that is not nice!!
Paul.
Sailfree
Well-Known Member
Sorry others are not more helpful and sorry but I have never done that trip prefering France to rip off Britain whenever we go away.
I do keep a summary of all our port to port times and its always interesting to compare actual to planned and appreciate why the difference.
In a 36' AWB I used to always plan on 5kts then factor in the tide. If the wind was favourable then 6 kts was a bonus!!
I do keep a summary of all our port to port times and its always interesting to compare actual to planned and appreciate why the difference.
In a 36' AWB I used to always plan on 5kts then factor in the tide. If the wind was favourable then 6 kts was a bonus!!
Bergman
Well-Known Member
You don't seem to be getting much help here do you.
Not my part of the world so can't give definitive answers but first thought is why does it matter so much.
Just go sailing towards - where ever
If you get there you do and if you don't then go somewhere else - you have a yacht not a ferry.
My other thought is that perhaps a bit more ambition in the early stages - 3 days from Haslar to Weymouth does seem a bit slow why not set off in good time and do itin one?
Giving f6 a miss seems good advice - particularly if its on the nose (it usually is!)
If no wind - well you've got a good Diesel.
Think what I'm really saying is go for it and stop worrying so much - Cast off for'ard, cast off aft and let tomorrow take care of itself. This planning thing can be carried too far.
Not my part of the world so can't give definitive answers but first thought is why does it matter so much.
Just go sailing towards - where ever
If you get there you do and if you don't then go somewhere else - you have a yacht not a ferry.
My other thought is that perhaps a bit more ambition in the early stages - 3 days from Haslar to Weymouth does seem a bit slow why not set off in good time and do itin one?
Giving f6 a miss seems good advice - particularly if its on the nose (it usually is!)
If no wind - well you've got a good Diesel.
Think what I'm really saying is go for it and stop worrying so much - Cast off for'ard, cast off aft and let tomorrow take care of itself. This planning thing can be carried too far.
Seven Spades
Well-Known Member
You are right we are leaving on Saturday morning and if the wind and everything is in our favour we could try to go straight to Studland and give Yarmouth a miss, I guess it depends if I can get everyone moving early enough. It's a family holiday, so I have lots of options. I intend to stay the night in Studland Bay so that the kids can go swimming etc. Ideally I would love to go straight from Studland to Brixham and give Weymouth a miss and save the trouble of going in and back out around Portland Bill. That however would make a long sail and might not be very family friendly. It looks like the best and safest way is to go the long way around from Weymouth and leave very early, and make sure we are not on an inside berth the night before.
jimi
Well-Known Member
What I tended to do was do a delivery trip with a couple of mates the weekend before and let the family hilday start at Torquay area or Plymouth
Seven Spades
Well-Known Member
In hindsight I think you are right Jimi.
jimi
Well-Known Member
FWIW I'd try to go Haslar -> STudland (1 tide) anchor there over a tide and then go straight to Dartmouth upping anchor about half an hour before the tide turns (tidal streams are weakish in Lyme Bay).
Rationale is that is you coast hop you'll get to about Salcombe and then it'll be time to return
Rationale is that is you coast hop you'll get to about Salcombe and then it'll be time to return
LadyInBed
Well-Known Member
If you haven't done it before and the weather is settled don't miss out on Lulworth cove, whether it is just a lunch time break and a swim or for an overnighter, then you could inflate your dingy, don your LJ's and take the kids around and through Stair Hole, what an experience for them - and it's FREE.
If you went into Weymouth on your way back then Lulworth is also a good jumping off point to go round the Bill. Though a point in favour of Weymouth, especially if you are doing a lot of motoring, is that the fuel is cheaper there than almost anywhere else that you are likely to visit.
Your thoughts on missing out Yarmouth sound good to me, I'm sure you have been there before! If you are starting off picking up the W going tide, that will carry you through the Solent and some / most of the way on to Studland.
If you went into Weymouth on your way back then Lulworth is also a good jumping off point to go round the Bill. Though a point in favour of Weymouth, especially if you are doing a lot of motoring, is that the fuel is cheaper there than almost anywhere else that you are likely to visit.
Your thoughts on missing out Yarmouth sound good to me, I'm sure you have been there before! If you are starting off picking up the W going tide, that will carry you through the Solent and some / most of the way on to Studland.
Bergman
Well-Known Member
I always found with my hooligans, I mean kids, that what kept them sweet was being different.
For example an early start around going to school time is a bore, they do it every day.
Tell them they're to be up at 5AM and see the sun rise and it becomes exciting or at least different- even better they go back to sleep afterwards for a while.
Try a night sail - My daughter used to love that. She was on watch with me "asleep" in the cockpit and she would wake me up to show me any and everything that appeared.
Don't know how old your children are but ifyou can involve them in running the boat, perhaps teach them basic navigation. Once set my son to navigate to a particular buoy, and I sat below (eyes glued to Decca) while he steered to it.
After about 30-40 mins a voice asking me to come on deck cos visibility was bad I told him to carry on, but a few mins later same again. When I went on deck could'nt see other end of boat.
So being a barsteward I made him navigate back to marina - and he did!
However you do it do involve them its a real bore for them otherwise.
For example an early start around going to school time is a bore, they do it every day.
Tell them they're to be up at 5AM and see the sun rise and it becomes exciting or at least different- even better they go back to sleep afterwards for a while.
Try a night sail - My daughter used to love that. She was on watch with me "asleep" in the cockpit and she would wake me up to show me any and everything that appeared.
Don't know how old your children are but ifyou can involve them in running the boat, perhaps teach them basic navigation. Once set my son to navigate to a particular buoy, and I sat below (eyes glued to Decca) while he steered to it.
After about 30-40 mins a voice asking me to come on deck cos visibility was bad I told him to carry on, but a few mins later same again. When I went on deck could'nt see other end of boat.
So being a barsteward I made him navigate back to marina - and he did!
However you do it do involve them its a real bore for them otherwise.
Robin
Well-Known Member
If you are talking this weekend the forecast is for easterlies, ideal for going west but not ideal for staying in Studland unless the wind is really light. We go straight from Poole to Dartmouth, leave Poole outside at HW Dover minus 1.75hrs approx, there is a back eddy of tide along close inshore to get you to St Albans just about at slack, you then have around 7 hrs before it goes noticeably against you but you will be well across Lyme Bay by then. In our last boat 33ft we planned on keeping up 6kts under sail or power or both and did Poole to Dartmouth in around 10.5hrs using the tide as described and passing 4mls south of the Bill. Weymouth unless you WANT to go there is a diversion that costs time and ties you really into the inshore passage. If you do want to stop, Portland is another option, anchor off Castle Cove for free and no rafting to complicate departure. This weekend I think is the Youth dinghy championships there too so lots to watch (and keep clear of!) but there's plenty of space.
KREW2
Well-Known Member
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If you do want to stop, Portland is another option, anchor off Castle Cove for free and no rafting to complicate departure.
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It's not free, however the harbour dues are minimal, and unless the rib comes and collects it I don't Know where you would pay
If you do want to stop, Portland is another option, anchor off Castle Cove for free and no rafting to complicate departure.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not free, however the harbour dues are minimal, and unless the rib comes and collects it I don't Know where you would pay
Robin
Well-Known Member
I know, but we were there recently and stayed Friday and Saturday nights without being charged, even though our friends there said the rib had been about. We've been going there for many many years and never ever paid to anchor so might argue with them anyway on principle, according to the website we should pay £8 but for what exactly, no loos, no landing point, no rubbish collection. Word from our local friends is they are more concerned with jetskis and divers and I would have thought paying wages for collection cost more than they would collect.
BobE
Well-Known Member
EXTRACT FROM SAILING TODAY ( October 2002)
Peter Jackson of Weymouth Sailing Club has been around the inshore passage 20 to 30 times: “I’ve never had a problem with it. At the right time and in the right conditions it’s fine. I think St Albans Head is much worse.
EAST to WEST
Making westward via the inshore passage, the timing is easy, as good harbours and anchorages are plentiful for starting points a short distance away. Leaving Weymouth two hours before HW Dover will fetch you up at the Bill just at slack water — that’s slack in the Channel, but at the Bill the tide is going south at rates between 2.5-4.6kn. Rounding Portland Harbour wall, the cliffs of Portland’s east coast loom ahead. This is Grove Point and from here the tide begins to run in earnest. Approaching Portland from farther east, make for Grove Point to pass inside the Race. From Grove Point stay close in. There the shore is steep-to and clean. Most yachts maintain an offing of about 100- 150m. Approaching the Bill, the Race comes into view. It is very easy to pick out the strip of smooth water between it and the rocks, like a tarmac road through rugged country. One hazard to watch out for, however, is pot markers. These are often small and, when the tide is running hard, can be pulled beneath the surface by the flow. This is especially dangerous as most yachts will round the Bill under engine. Between the white beacon and Pulpit Rock there are rocks awash extending from the shore. Once clear of Pulpit Rock you are again in open water, but here you will encounter the south-going flow from the west side of Portland. To avoid being swept back into the Race by this, head north-west into Lyme Bay for a mile or so before setting a direct course for Start Point or Brixham.
WEST to EAST
From Lyme Bay, make for Blacknor Point to avoid being swept into the Race by a strong southerly set as you approach the Bill. From the east, close the Portland shore at Grove Point to pass inside the Race. There are rocks awash at high water close inshore between Pulpit Rock and the white stone beacon. If you arrive early from the west it is best to wait for a fair tide in West Bay, except in strong south westerlies when it would be better in any case to go outside the Race.
Arriving from the west, you need to allow for the strong southerly
stream that you will encounter as you approach the Bill.
Coming from the west, aim to be off the Bill at Dover +0500. With this timing you will catch a rare fair tide on the east side of Portland. Mike Jury of Weymouth SC reckons that most of the problems occur when eastbound, partly because of the difficulty of timing your arrival after a passage from the other side of Lyme Bay. His advice, if arriving early, is to tuck into the west side of Portland and wait for the tide to turn: “Watch for the south-going set near the Bill. Crossing Lyme Bay make for a point at least three miles north of the Bill. It is too easy to get within three miles of the Bill and be met by five knots of south-going tide, which will throw you straight into the Race.”
If it Goes Wrong
Yachts do get drawn into the Race, either by bad timing, inaccurate navigation or just plain bad luck. Local fisherman Alan Smith fishes for bass off the Bill. His advice for anyone unfortunate enough is: “Don’t try to fight it. Drop your sails and go with it. It will be a very unpleasant experience, but the Race won’t take long to spit you out at the other end.’’ Weymouth lifeboat is regularly called to small vessels caught up in the Race.
Peter Jackson of Weymouth Sailing Club has been around the inshore passage 20 to 30 times: “I’ve never had a problem with it. At the right time and in the right conditions it’s fine. I think St Albans Head is much worse.
EAST to WEST
Making westward via the inshore passage, the timing is easy, as good harbours and anchorages are plentiful for starting points a short distance away. Leaving Weymouth two hours before HW Dover will fetch you up at the Bill just at slack water — that’s slack in the Channel, but at the Bill the tide is going south at rates between 2.5-4.6kn. Rounding Portland Harbour wall, the cliffs of Portland’s east coast loom ahead. This is Grove Point and from here the tide begins to run in earnest. Approaching Portland from farther east, make for Grove Point to pass inside the Race. From Grove Point stay close in. There the shore is steep-to and clean. Most yachts maintain an offing of about 100- 150m. Approaching the Bill, the Race comes into view. It is very easy to pick out the strip of smooth water between it and the rocks, like a tarmac road through rugged country. One hazard to watch out for, however, is pot markers. These are often small and, when the tide is running hard, can be pulled beneath the surface by the flow. This is especially dangerous as most yachts will round the Bill under engine. Between the white beacon and Pulpit Rock there are rocks awash extending from the shore. Once clear of Pulpit Rock you are again in open water, but here you will encounter the south-going flow from the west side of Portland. To avoid being swept back into the Race by this, head north-west into Lyme Bay for a mile or so before setting a direct course for Start Point or Brixham.
WEST to EAST
From Lyme Bay, make for Blacknor Point to avoid being swept into the Race by a strong southerly set as you approach the Bill. From the east, close the Portland shore at Grove Point to pass inside the Race. There are rocks awash at high water close inshore between Pulpit Rock and the white stone beacon. If you arrive early from the west it is best to wait for a fair tide in West Bay, except in strong south westerlies when it would be better in any case to go outside the Race.
Arriving from the west, you need to allow for the strong southerly
stream that you will encounter as you approach the Bill.
Coming from the west, aim to be off the Bill at Dover +0500. With this timing you will catch a rare fair tide on the east side of Portland. Mike Jury of Weymouth SC reckons that most of the problems occur when eastbound, partly because of the difficulty of timing your arrival after a passage from the other side of Lyme Bay. His advice, if arriving early, is to tuck into the west side of Portland and wait for the tide to turn: “Watch for the south-going set near the Bill. Crossing Lyme Bay make for a point at least three miles north of the Bill. It is too easy to get within three miles of the Bill and be met by five knots of south-going tide, which will throw you straight into the Race.”
If it Goes Wrong
Yachts do get drawn into the Race, either by bad timing, inaccurate navigation or just plain bad luck. Local fisherman Alan Smith fishes for bass off the Bill. His advice for anyone unfortunate enough is: “Don’t try to fight it. Drop your sails and go with it. It will be a very unpleasant experience, but the Race won’t take long to spit you out at the other end.’’ Weymouth lifeboat is regularly called to small vessels caught up in the Race.
oldharry
Well-Known Member
First tme I rounded the Bill in a little 20 footer - hatches battened, crew (kids) looking like RNLI refugees in their life jackets and life lines, wife wishing we had bought a caravan etc....
Got out there dead on time in a flat calm, with some bloke swanning round in a rowing boat lifting pots.
Last time round (last year) on passage from Lyme to Poole was much the same, but the previous occasion the forecast 3 had piped up to a solid 5, got there much too soon and hung around for an an hour and a half, then went in still a bit early, and had an exciting (my terms) / bad (her terms) time of it as we approached the Bill.
Got out there dead on time in a flat calm, with some bloke swanning round in a rowing boat lifting pots.
Last time round (last year) on passage from Lyme to Poole was much the same, but the previous occasion the forecast 3 had piped up to a solid 5, got there much too soon and hung around for an an hour and a half, then went in still a bit early, and had an exciting (my terms) / bad (her terms) time of it as we approached the Bill.