Adverc - Really necessary?

[Tim Good]

On my boat I have this wonderful big box, a Heart system that charges, inverts and even makes a G&T. The charge cycle does the usual advanced things like accept and float.

However, there is no adverc in the system or at least it was removed by the previous owner as I found one kicking around a locker.

Are they really necessary?

 

[pvb]

Depends on the charging voltage of your alternator, plus the extent to which you need to rely on engine charging. Many modern alternators already output 14.4v or so, and the need for an alternator booster is less than in olden times.

 

[William_H]

I think from your vaue description your device is a mains powered charger (plus inverter). As said your charging from the engine alternator will be standard charge from that alternator. This may be OK for your needs but if not the adverc (and here I assume it is an alternator charge controller ) will improve recharge when you are away from mains power and need to use the engine to recharge batteries. I would suggest that you fit an amp meter to measure battery charge from the engine alternator if you don't already have one. This will tell you just how effective your engine charging is when you need it. An adverc may improve that charge current especially after half an hour or so of engine run. good luck olewill

 

[jdc]

I agree with the above, but would add that it depends quite a bit on whether you have solar and/or wind. We don't (yet), but we do have a generator and fancy mains charger, and an Adverc on the engine.

On an extended cruise or passage, if we are using just the generator for an hour or two once or twice a day the batteries gradually sag and won't get above 85% charge. But in most 'normal' cruises the engine is on for some hours (maybe 8 or more) every few days simply due to lack of wind and a desire to go somewhere. This means the batteries get charged for maybe 8 hrs continuously, and this makes all the difference. The Adverc brings them back to 100% seemingly more efficiently than does the mains charger, but the key factor is probably just that you need quite a high Voltage (14.0 - 14.4) for extended periods, even 'tho the batteries are taking little current, to get batteries to 100% charge. Absent solar or wind, the engine is likely to be on for longer than a generator will.

With this regime, we have kept the same Pb/Ca sealed batteries (and a small Odessy AGM for the engine start) for 9 seasons now, which implies that they quite like our regime.

 

[GrahamM376]

Much depends on boat usage. Adverc and Sterling boosters are excellent for charging quickly if you use the engine regularly but, running the engine off load just to charge batteries isn't good for the engine so solar and/or wind genny is better.

 

[Tim Good]

I agree with the above, but would add that it depends quite a bit on whether you have solar and/or wind. We don't (yet), but we do have a generator and fancy mains charger, and an Adverc on the engine.

Other info:

120W Solar Panel: Yes
Generator: Yes
Batteries: 4 service, 1 engine, 1 bow / windlass

Well I'm unsure if the engine and generator go directly into the Heart System and then kick out the charge. I think the Genset makes 240v, feeds into the heart and then the heart does the charging. Therefore i assume the adverc isn't needed there since the Heart should provide optimal charging.

So it is just the engine alternator then but when on it does seem to boot about 14.5v into the Heart so I can direct that charge to all or one of the battery banks. so you'd assume it was regulated charge via the Heart again.

Solar does its job well and usually a single sunny day is all it needs to bring them back up.

The only big Q is will the adverc significantly improve the life span of the batteries?

 

[pvb]

Other info:

120W Solar Panel: Yes
Generator: Yes
Batteries: 4 service, 1 engine, 1 bow / windlass

Well I'm unsure if the engine and generator go directly into the Heart System and then kick out the charge. I think the Genset makes 240v, feeds into the heart and then the heart does the charging. Therefore i assume the adverc isn't needed there since the Heart should provide optimal charging.

So it is just the engine alternator then but when on it does seem to boot about 14.5v into the Heart so I can direct that charge to all or one of the battery banks. so you'd assume it was regulated charge via the Heart again.

Solar does its job well and usually a single sunny day is all it needs to bring them back up.

The only big Q is will the adverc significantly improve the life span of the batteries?

Short answer is probably not. However, I'd be surprised if your alternator feeds into your inverter/charger. Perhaps it would be worth getting a marine electrician along for half an hour to check and explain to you how the whole lot is connected.

 

[Tim Good]

Short answer is probably not. However, I'd be surprised if your alternator feeds into your inverter/charger. Perhaps it would be worth getting a marine electrician along for half an hour to check and explain to you how the whole lot is connected.

Indeed. I was in a rush to deliver it back from Falmouth where there was an excellent guy. Now unsure in / around Bristol. I'll ask around and get some recommendations.

 

[jdc]

Short answer is probably not. However, I'd be surprised if your alternator feeds into your inverter/charger. Perhaps it would be worth getting a marine electrician along for half an hour to check and explain to you how the whole lot is connected.

I second this. The keys to battery longevity are:
1. don't discharge them very far, preferably not below 60% - 70% [of full charge, ie use only 30% - 40% of capacity]
2. nevertheless re-charge them soon, ie don't leave them partially discharged for more than a couple of days
3. and re-charge them fully, which may take several hours
4. but don't over charge / charge at too high a Voltage

The problem with using a generator, however fancy the charger, is that one usually wants it on only for short periods, say an hour or two. So condition 3 is not satisfied.

This condition - for several hours of continuous charging to reach 100% - is, for us anyway, more easily met using the engine than it would be using the generator. But since you have solar, this probably satisfies condition 3 without relying on the engine.

None of the above requires an Adverc.

However the Adverc is nonetheless essential for us because our alternator senses at the alternator, not at the battery, so was delivering too low a Voltage to charge the batteries fully (it sensed the wrong side of the splitter diodes, whereas the Adverc senses at the battery bank). However more modern thinking seems to use Voltage sensitive relays rather than diodes to connect the two (ie house and engine starter) battery banks, so a major reason for the Voltage being too low is eliminated.

 

[Stemar]

I second this. The keys to battery longevity are:
1. don't discharge them very far, preferably not below 60% - 70%
2. nevertheless re-charge them soon, ie don't leave them partially discharged for more than a couple of days
3. and re-charge them fully, which may take several hours
4. but don't over charge / charge at too high a Voltage

The problem with using a generator, however fancy the charger, is that one usually wants it on only for short periods, say an hour or two. So condition 3 is not satisfied.

This condition - for several hours of continuous charging to reach 100% - is, for us anyway, more easily met using the engine than it would be using the generator. But since you have solar, this probably satisfies condition 3 without relying on the engine.

None of the above requires an Adverc.

+1

I reckon that, if someone does think they need to get something like an adverc, the money would nearly always be better spent on solar panels & a decent controller for them.

However the Adverc is nonetheless essential for us because our alternator senses at the alternator, not at the battery, so was delivering too low a Voltage to charge the batteries fully (it sensed the wrong side of the splitter diodes, whereas the Adverc senses at the battery bank). However more modern thinking seems to use Voltage sensitive relays rather than diodes to connect the two (ie house and engine starter) battery banks, so a major reason for the Voltage being too low is eliminated.

Not worth spending money to change the system, but a relay in place of the diodes would be a very cheap solution compared to replacing a dead adverc. I use an ordinary automotive relay at change from a fiver energised from the field terminal, rather than a VSR, some of which are silly money, with no ill effects.

I know there's theoretical risk of a flat bank dragging down the other one, but with a 50+amp alternator doing it's stuff, unless you've got a serious current draw somewhere, I can't see it happening.

 

[JumbleDuck]

My Adverc does nothing on short engine runs when the alternator is at 14.4v anyway. However, on longer runs it gets warm and the Hitachi regulator cuts output significantly, so the Adverc starts doing its stuff. Mind you, the battery is probably fully charged by then.

 

[Storyline]

A good idea from this thread is to have the boat's system explained which I must do as we inherited an Adverc system with the boat and I have never understood how it is wired up or works. Someone mentions that theirs charges better than their charger but I find the opposite. Motor for hours and still the batteries are not as well charged as a night on our very large (& I assume was expensive) battery charger.

 

[jdc]

A good idea from this thread is to have the boat's system explained which I must do as we inherited an Adverc system with the boat and I have never understood how it is wired up or works. Someone mentions that theirs charges better than their charger but I find the opposite. Motor for hours and still the batteries are not as well charged as a night on our very large (& I assume was expensive) battery charger.

The clue to this apparent difference is that I was contrasting the mains charger powered by the generator with charging from the engine. You are contrasting a night on shore power with charging from the engine. The difference is simply the duration; I wasn't claiming that the Adverc was better than the fancy charger, only that I tend to have the engine on for longer than I do the generator.

 

[Stemar]

A good idea from this thread is to have the boat's system explained which I must do as we inherited an Adverc system with the boat and I have never understood how it is wired up or works. Someone mentions that theirs charges better than their charger but I find the opposite. Motor for hours and still the batteries are not as well charged as a night on our very large (& I assume was expensive) battery charger.

From the Adverc site:

What does the Adverc System do?
The ADVERC BM SYSTEM is a controller.
It allows the alternator to deliver the optimum voltage and current to ensure the overall system to which it is applied is working efficiently.
Importantly, the Adverc also guarantees the batteries can be charged quickly and effectively through its unique programmed cycling voltages.
As the Adverc controller is a battery sensed unit it compensates for any voltage losses due to long cable runs as well as possible voltage drops across blocking diodes, if these are used.
Overall this leads to a more efficient alternator performance, reduced engine running time and can increase battery capacity by 30-40%.
It has been shown that the improved battery charging will also extend the battery life by a similar amount.
In other words, it ensures the batteries get the optimimum voltage for charging. It also uses some clever electronics to pulse the charging current, which improves the battery's ability to absorb charge.

I still stand by my comment above that most people would be better off spending the money on solar panels, as they're giving you something whenever it's light, and time on charge is more important than squeezing the last amp out of an alternator that spends most of its life doing nothing. (To the pedants: Yes, I know this is a huge simplification of a complex subject!)

 

[Storyline]

The clue to this apparent difference is that I was contrasting the mains charger powered by the generator with charging from the engine. You are contrasting a night on shore power with charging from the engine. The difference is simply the duration; I wasn't claiming that the Adverc was better than the fancy charger, only that I tend to have the engine on for longer than I do the generator.

Got it, sorry, speed read your post and did not register the generator bit