Advantages of Part One over SSR?

This is very informative,thank you. Is there a european standard way to register yachts or does each country have her own equivalant to SSR/Part 1? To digress I had the old blue book on a `historic`fishing boat,it`s a satisfying historical document,solid to hold it in your hand unlike a bit of plastic. And have any yachtsmen `flagged out` to Panama for example for any reason? Good watch Jerry
 
Part One Reg also requires a specific port of registration which must be displayed on the transom. The ports are pre-defined by MCA and you can choose which one.

So you decide to name a yacht Sweet Fanny Adams of Quaintport, but then add somewhere yucky like Southampton, London or whatever as well.
 
No. No standard system although almost all countries have some form of registration. In many cases it is compulsory and much more bureaucratic than in the UK. For example in Greece it cost me nearly £1000 to put my boat on the charter register and £700 to deregister it. The SSR was introduced as a simple of way of identifying a small boat as being registered in the UK to satisfy foreign authorities. It means that normally (in line with the UN convention) you can enter their waters without having to comply with the local registration requirements.

For a fuller explanation see the RYA site on Taking Your Boat Abroad.
 
Tranona said:
In what way? If boats on the SSR are difficult to sell why are so many sold?

I cannot see how it can make any difference, but happy to learn that I may be wrong!
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Well it is like this:

If my next boat is a Mcgreggor 26 then I am quite happy to save 400 quid and have a useless piece of encapsulated card that looks like I have taken third prize in a choirboys sack race. The person I sell it to is probably quite happy too.

If my next boat is a Swan 45 then saving £400 is probably not the top of my agenda. I will want the useful and imposing Blue Book. So will the chap who buys it from me down the line.

You have to interpolate between the two cases. Two identical boats, the one on Part 1 will sell first.
Better title, pretty paperwork, human nature.
 
doug748 said:
Well it is like this:

If my next boat is a Mcgreggor 26 then I am quite happy to save 400 quid and have a useless piece of encapsulated card that looks like I have taken third prize in a choirboys sack race. The person I sell it to is probably quite happy too.

If my next boat is a Swan 45 then saving £400 is probably not the top of my agenda. I will want the useful and imposing Blue Book. So will the chap who buys it from me down the line.

You have to interpolate between the two cases. Two identical boats, the one on Part 1 will sell first.
Better title, pretty paperwork, human nature.
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Sorry to disapoint you - but today the part one registration document is just a piece on encapsulated greenish card.
 
doug748 said:
Well it is like this:


Better title, pretty paperwork, human nature.
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That is just plain silly. The paperwork is no longer "pretty", just a scrap of laminated card. It is not proof of title - the Bill of Sale is that. So your last point is the only one that is true. Some people seem to like largely worthless pieces of paper!

Actually I rather like my Blue Book made out in best copperplate by the registrar in Plymouth in 1963. My daughters were always disappointed that the box for allowance for apprentice accommodation was empty! Lovely curio and conversation piece for nerds but that is all!

Somewhat perversely I rather like the SSR on my expensive boat. Such a little piece of paper is so powerful in the right situation!

BTW I would love to see your evidence to support your statement that a Part 1 registered boat would sell first!
 
jerrytug said:
And have any yachtsmen `flagged out` to Panama for example for any reason?
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As a British expatriate working abroad for a UK company who could not fulfil the UK residence part of the Part III SSR application, I once registered my yacht, based in the Mediterranean, under the Austrian flag. It was an easy and cheap alternative with a far more impressive registration document than the SSR.
 
Personally I can't see a benefit to Part 1 - it just costs more and as someone pointed out it now needs to be renewed (paid for) every 5 years. We have had 2 boats which came with Part 1 and one with SSR. Not seen any difference in selling terms. We also had a marine mortgage on the SSR registered one with no problem. However I haven't been to far places so bow to the knowledge of those who have.

The only bit I thought was really worth the extra cost with Part 1 on our Macwester 26 was the bit listing No. of funnels :)
 
For those of you who believe that SSR is the way to go, a word of caution: some years ago I bought a new boat without finance from a manufacturer appointed sales agent and then found, some weeks later the boat chained and padlocked to the pontoon. The agent had used stock finance to purchase the boat from the builder and despite receiving cash from me had not paid off the stock finance; the bill of sale, by the way, showed that there were no encumbrances.
Had I applied for Part 1 registration, the MCA would have found that the boat was mortgaged.
Luckily, the agent found some money (before he went bust some weeks later) to pay off the stock finance and the chain was removed.
However, I had a very worrying 2 weeks where I thought I had lost £250,000 with no legal recourse whatsoever.
Apparently using stock finance to buy boats from builders is standard practice among sales agents, so if your boat is worth more than a few bob, you now know the way to go!
 
When cruising in the more bureaucratic parts of the EU the maxim is the more bits of official paper you have to show the better!. I perfectly understand the arguement that SSR is the cheaper alternative, and this is seemingly good for most countries. But believe you me that the bigger the 'paper trail' you have in Southern Europe to show officials the less hassle you get.
 
doug748 said:
Yes, part one Guernsey is the way to go. You still get a nice Blue Book with a written record of ownership, which goes a long way to impress at sale time.
I don't know what it costs, maybe 300/400 quid and 75 at change of ownership, in other words a tiny amount in respect of a new boat.
It lasts the life of the boat - now. I understand they have changes in train, so for the future who knows, I guess they have politicians in the CI's as well
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We found that the Part 1 document ( it's a laminated sheet really) smoothed the path with various marina offices and port officials on our trip down to the Med and back. In legal terms it is a much more substantial document than SSR. We have just renewed ours at a cost of £49 for the next five years. Comparing this with the CI registration option and assuming your top figure of £400, I make it that the MCA route buys you 100 years. I know we are living for longer, but really! The other point to remember is that the Channel Islands are not in the EC and this can cause problems with some authorities for craft registered there, especially in terms of long term stays abroad. I wonder if the real attraction is the acquisition of the Blue Book of fond memory to UK owners.
 
doug748 said:
"Sorry to disapoint you - but today the part one registration document is just a piece on encapsulated greenish card."

Please pay attention at the back: http://www.shipsregistry.gov.gg/reg_pt1.htm#fees1

If in doubt read the thread.
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That link is to the States of Guernsey ships register. It is clear from the thread that Guernsey does still provide a snazzy document to show port officials. However to the best of my knowledge the UK authority no longer does so. I just have an A4 laminated document for Part I.

If a yacht is registered in Guernsey then you would then no longer be able to apply for a warrant to wear a defaced British ensign should that be a privilege of your club.
 
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murraynorth said:
For those of you who believe that SSR is the way to go, a word of caution: some years ago I bought a new boat without finance from a manufacturer appointed sales agent and then found, some weeks later the boat chained and padlocked to the pontoon. The agent had used stock finance to purchase the boat from the builder and despite receiving cash from me had not paid off the stock finance; the bill of sale, by the way, showed that there were no encumbrances.
Had I applied for Part 1 registration, the MCA would have found that the boat was mortgaged.
Luckily, the agent found some money (before he went bust some weeks later) to pay off the stock finance and the chain was removed.
However, I had a very worrying 2 weeks where I thought I had lost £250,000 with no legal recourse whatsoever.
Apparently using stock finance to buy boats from builders is standard practice among sales agents, so if your boat is worth more than a few bob, you now know the way to go!
Click to expand...

Not sure being on Part 1 would have helped. As far as I know the registrar does not do a search it only registers the interest when informed by the lender. So they would have had no way of knowing that your boat was security against a loan. Your recourse would be to the dealer because he did not fulfil the contract by selling you a boat free of encumbrance. Not that it would have helped if he had no money anyway. In dealer finance the lender cannot register their interest because the boat itself is not registered.

This is a good example of the misconception of the strength of title Part 1 gives. There is no compulsion to register a charge, although of course most do. Similarly it is not as is claimed legal title. It is only confirmation because you cannot register the boat without a Bill of Sale (among other documents). It is the Bill of Sale that gives legal title to the registered owner.
 
Blue book has a certain snob value but it still gives a good impression to some foreign officials with comments like "nice document", and my boat is a low value job.
 
Jersey part 1 lasts for 10 years.

On a new build (of value) I would go for part 1 simply as easiest time to do & might help a bit when selling (evidence of title and no debts, albeit not absolute proof) and although I might not need finance a buyer might.........plus I just feel part 1 is more proper :rolleyes:

But it don't matter at all in practice abroad.
 
Where to get carved Tonnage board?

I've just gone through process to get Part 1 Reg. and it was mostly pretty simple (but it 's a 2009 boat so documentation easy to sort out). They were picky though and I had a document returned because dealer had missed both our middle names (joint ownership). Perversely, they were happy for myself and my wife to cross out out middle names and initial beside the change (both sets of initials included our middle initial).

My previous boat had the Blue book (still have it for nostalgic reasons) and it was much nicer than the laminated replacement. I went for part one because it might help when selling (buyer might need finance), it might help abroad (once is enough) and I can fly a blue ensign if I wish.

Reg. process not quite complete yet for a silly reason. I thought the surveyor, register of shipping, RYA etc. would be able to tell me where to buy a Tonnage Board. Unfortunately not, so still looking.

Nauticalia do a brass engraved version for around £45 (£30 + £10 engraving + £5 p&P). I rather fancied the same type of carved board my old boat had rather than a brass plate.

Perhaps they are too expensive and nobody buys them any more. I wonder if anyone knows someone who sells the wooden version?
 
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