dk
Well-Known Member
It's all about buying good batten cars. If you do, and you fit bungee to the lazyjacks so they can be held out of the way when hoisting, you find you don't need to be head to wind when hoisting at all.
Advantages, if any, of fully battened sails
- Thread starter Scotty_Tradewind
- Start date
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
Our fully battened main also comes down in a couple of seconds or less. We don't even have ball bearing cars on the mast track - just slides.
We flake the main halyard ready to drop and knock the clutch off as soon as we are somewhere near heard to wind. It comes down instantly and the only job left is tucking any reefing pennants in that haven't landed inside the stack pack and zipping it up.
When we have a new main it will be fully battened again.
Some of the comments about depowering mainsails makes me wonder what the basic shape of the sail is like. If the sail is old and baggy, it is very difficult to depower it.
bedouin
Well-Known Member
When I had a new main a couple of years ago I opted for a half-way house. I went for two full length battens in the top to support a larger roach and then conventional battens lower down. I am very happy with the result.
Danny Jo
Well-Known Member
What a good idea! I've been intending to fitting decent cleats for my lazy jack halyards, just as soon as I can find a decent set of taps to put in 6mm threads for the fastening bolts. Or can you pull the lazyjacks out of the way without slackening the halyard?
seabright
Active Member
sorry to disagree
We have a fully battened sail on our long keel 35 footer. I think it depends on the type of sailing you do but I really don't like it. Reasons are:
1. We do alot of long passages, generally reaching or downwind. In light winds with a swell the battens 'pop' with every swell. This drives me mad and also puts all sorts of stresses on the rig. Means we sail less and motor more. We have to reef in very light conditions to get the bottom batten on the boom!!
2. Wear problems harder to control as you have hard battens rubbing on other hard things )shrouds etc) with sail cloth inbetween.
3. Performance advantage for our sort of boat seems very marginal.
4. Depowering / Powering up the boat in much harder especially if you have this sort of boat with a keel which is much more likely to 'stall'.
5. Extra expense and more to go wrong.
All depends on what you want it for I guess. A well cut traditional main has good shape - good enough fo me anyway.
We have a fully battened sail on our long keel 35 footer. I think it depends on the type of sailing you do but I really don't like it. Reasons are:
1. We do alot of long passages, generally reaching or downwind. In light winds with a swell the battens 'pop' with every swell. This drives me mad and also puts all sorts of stresses on the rig. Means we sail less and motor more. We have to reef in very light conditions to get the bottom batten on the boom!!
2. Wear problems harder to control as you have hard battens rubbing on other hard things )shrouds etc) with sail cloth inbetween.
3. Performance advantage for our sort of boat seems very marginal.
4. Depowering / Powering up the boat in much harder especially if you have this sort of boat with a keel which is much more likely to 'stall'.
5. Extra expense and more to go wrong.
All depends on what you want it for I guess. A well cut traditional main has good shape - good enough fo me anyway.
seabright
Active Member
Bit more clarity
With No.4, I mean when you are trying just to keep enough way on for those tricky close quarter manouvres.
With No.4, I mean when you are trying just to keep enough way on for those tricky close quarter manouvres.
Scotty_Tradewind
Well-Known Member
well I'm a bit mystified by these answers above.
I don't have a permanently attached sail cover so no problem there, and to flake the sail on the boom is a doddle compared to a sail with no battens.
Thanks though to all who gave their opinions
S.
D
Deleted member 36384
Guest
My Stak Pak boom cover was fitted to my boom with the foot of my sail so that it is always attached. Hence with main hoisted I have a boom cover attached to the boom. Hence my observation on my system. For cruising on my boat, I don't want lazy jacks, and boom covers rigged.
I guess on your boat a fully battened main is good for performance. I don't think it is on my boat with all the rig associated with a stak pak system.
Hope my comments are a bit clearer with regards to your original question.
Scotty_Tradewind
Well-Known Member
Blowing old boots....... thanks for that.
Lazy jacks are a nuisance with a fully battened main and really on a smaller yacht with battens, not really required. The battens get caught in them whilst hoisting and dropping and are more trouble than they're worth.
I sailed on a smaller boat than mine, a Corribee, this w/e and that had a stak pac with battens and they made the hoisting and dropping a difficult and possibly a dangerous affair in a wind if the bows were not exactly head on to the wind.
I've also sailed on a handful of larger yachts that do not have battens with lazy jacks etc. and they make the whole lowereing and stacking etc... a very easy job.
The other issue is brought up in another post,' How close will your boat point'.
With a fully battened main I can get within 30deg especially if she's emptied out and riding high rather than having all her cruising gear onboard.
Lazy jacks are a nuisance with a fully battened main and really on a smaller yacht with battens, not really required. The battens get caught in them whilst hoisting and dropping and are more trouble than they're worth.
I sailed on a smaller boat than mine, a Corribee, this w/e and that had a stak pac with battens and they made the hoisting and dropping a difficult and possibly a dangerous affair in a wind if the bows were not exactly head on to the wind.
I've also sailed on a handful of larger yachts that do not have battens with lazy jacks etc. and they make the whole lowereing and stacking etc... a very easy job.
The other issue is brought up in another post,' How close will your boat point'.
With a fully battened main I can get within 30deg especially if she's emptied out and riding high rather than having all her cruising gear onboard.
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srm
Well-Known Member
My new (to me) boat came with a fully battened main and I have had the same experiences as others when skippering charter boats in mistakenly thinking I had to keep the sail dead into the wind for hoisting - never believed it for lowering and never got into trouble (Moody 35 & Elan 43).
However, I am now able to hoist on just about any point of sail, and often raise the main while sailing on a reach under jib just as I used to with a soft sail. The answer is to rig the lazy jacks through mast block so the tails comes back to deck level on both sides. That way you can ease them right off and temporarily tie them back to the aft shroud from deck level. Do this on the lee side, the sail spills onto the side deck, and hoist away, then tighten lazy jack to tidy drop in sail bag. Before anyone moans about the work its a darn sight quicker and easier than taking ties off a soft sail and having it fall all over the place. If I can do this on a 35 ft boat single handed while sailing you should be able to do so on yours.
Have you tried to drop the sail on a run? I did and it worked fine. Just go forward, let go the halyard and pull the sail down at the luff, just as you would a soft sail with boom freed off. OK the battens rub against the shrouds but they don't twist and hook in the rig the way short ones did at times so in some ways its easier. I would prefer to be on a close reach so as not to drag the sail against the shrouds, but that also applies with the soft short battened mains.
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srm
Well-Known Member
Have you tried easing the batten tension so that they do not have a forced curve? I have found my fully battened main fine in the light conditions you describe, but stopped my crew from building a big curve in the battens. The boat was new to us all and they tightened everything up so the battens were like windsurfer wishbones! (Not that I am suggesting yours are anything like that).
jason -and the arguenauts
Well-Known Member
I really dont see this but then maybe I'm a bit too tired tonight.
Why is there any real difference as far as the kicker and main sheet are concerned? And since the sail stops any drive when it is lined up with the wind, why is there any difference in the time taken to lose drive?
The reefing of Bennybavs as you describe them is probably more to do with high sail area to displacement figures and low ballast ratios than anything to do with sails.
srm
Well-Known Member
Dont know what an 'bennybav' is, but according to mag articles fully battened mains do have an established reputation for keeping on driving even when apparently feathered. How much drive probably depends on the amount of permanent curvature that has been built in by batten tension as this curvature prevents the sail from fully feathering.
seabright
Active Member
srm - now there's a thought...
SRM - no we don't ease the batten tension although they are only moderately tensioned. We do tend to roll alot as we a narrow boat but thanks for the thought and we will give it a try.
Agree with those posters that ease their lazy jacks and pull them forward out of the way when required. We find out system really helps us but, like anything, you have to work out how to use them that works for you.
lots of ways of doing things, lots of experience and views - all good to hear.
SRM - no we don't ease the batten tension although they are only moderately tensioned. We do tend to roll alot as we a narrow boat but thanks for the thought and we will give it a try.
Agree with those posters that ease their lazy jacks and pull them forward out of the way when required. We find out system really helps us but, like anything, you have to work out how to use them that works for you.
lots of ways of doing things, lots of experience and views - all good to hear.