AdvanSea Instruments

[richsharp]

My Navico Corus depth/speed/wind instruments are not long for this world and I'm looking to replace them this year. Does anyone have any experience with fitting and using Advansea instruments they would like to share? How do they rate against Raymarine and Tacktick?

 

[Twister_Ken]

My Navico Corus depth/speed/wind instruments are not long for this world and I'm looking to replace them this year. Does anyone have any experience with fitting and using Advansea instruments they would like to share? How do they rate against Raymarine and Tacktick?

Isn't Advansea a cosmetic makeover of Navman stuff?

 

[WALLY]

basically,yes

 

[RobbieH]

Isn't Advansea a cosmetic makeover of Navman stuff?

If it's a makeover of Navman does anyone know if Navbus is supported by Avansea?

If it is just a cosmetic makeover of Navman I would be very wary about buying the instruments. I invested heavily in Navman kit and suffered with water ingress to the LCDs (intermittent fading/invisible digits). The plotter seems OK (touch wood) but the wind/depth/log series are cr*p! I would send the ones that are still in warranty back (to Northstar) for replacement but I am told that the revisions that were made to fix the problem didn't! Turning the backlight on for a while (24-48 hrs) seems to drive out the moisture and the display recovers but for how long this "fix" will work I don't know. Once humidity gets into instruments it's the beginning of the end I fear. Even the instruments at the chart table have got the sickness so it is not a question of direct splashing so much as condensation I think.

Furthermore I understand (from my local chandlery) that the news is that the Navico group - having discontinued the Navman series but rebranded it Northstar is now going to close down the Northstar line (at least for the old Navman design instruments). Leaving no support/spares for the people who bought Navman. Warranty replacements only while stocks last. Very, very shabby. If someone has better news I would welcome it.

In summary my advice would be to stay away from Avansea until the instruments have been proved for a year or two. And even then do not be surprised if you are left high and dry for support. I wish I had spent more money and gone with Furuno or Tacktick (but maybe not Raymarine!)

 

[FullCircle]

Mixed up stories here chaps.

Advansea is marketed by Plastimo.

Plastimo used to market and handle the warranty for Navman 3100 series instruments.

Plastimo lost their shirt on Navman instruments due to poor edge connector design and water ingress. Never fixed properly by Navman.

Plastimo stopped supporting Navman when it was sold to Navico(Northstar), because they knew they had Advansea coming along shortly.

Northstar did work the engineering solution required on the Navman 3100 series and appeared to have fixed them. I was given the first batch of instruments made by Northstar in January last year. They took my Navmans from Plastimo, where they had been for (yet another) warranty issue.

My Northstars have performed faultlessly this year.

I hadn't heard that Northstar (who are Navico) were stopping the production of their 310 series, and I don't think they would just stop supporting them. They have all the tooling.

So, in summary, do not buy second hand blue/grey Navman 3100 instruments at any price!

Also, do not impugn Plastimo on this point (although please do on other points), as they are sort of innocent. I would also vouch that they did their best at customer support for Navman, which was a busy time for them.

 

[RobbieH]

Mixed up stories here chaps.

Also, do not impugn Plastimo on this point (although please do on other points), as they are sort of innocent. I would also vouch that they did their best at customer support for Navman, which was a busy time for them.

I don't find them innocent at all - they are a major marketer of marine equipment. When they found there was a systemic problem with these devices did they pull the kit off the market? Did they issue any technical advice to users? No - they just kept their mouths shut except for marketing the **** even harder.

Plastimo used to sell kit which was not fit for purpose (and they knew it but continued pushing it). Now they are selling another line of similar kit. Perhaps they have done better technical due diligence before lending their name to this line. Perhaps they would be concerned about the bad publicity that might follow from (again) marketing gear not fit for purpose to their customers. Or perhaps not, my advice is to wait and see.

I'll email Northstar (if I can dig out an address) regarding replacements both under warranty and ex-warranty and ask them what engineering changes have been made to prevent the water ingress problems. I'll get back if I get any further info.

About the rumour that Northstar are going to stop production of the 310 series- my local chandler claimed he heard that at one of the European boat shows just before Xmas - but then he does sell Garmin and not Northstar
He is also the source claiming that Northstar have not fixed the water ingress problem with their revisions.

 

[RobbieH]

I
I'll email Northstar (if I can dig out an address) regarding replacements both under warranty and ex-warranty and ask them what engineering changes have been made to prevent the water ingress problems. I'll get back if I get any further info.

About the rumour that Northstar are going to stop production of the 310 series- my local chandler claimed he heard that at one of the European boat shows just before Xmas - but then he does sell Garmin and not Northstar
He is also the source claiming that Northstar have not fixed the water ingress problem with their revisions.

Spoke to the nice man at Northstar technical support. He says that there are two problems. One is the connections between the PCB and the display (aggravated by condensation in the unit) causing loss of digits - this problem can occur even in the relatively benign environment of the boat cabin (as it did for me). And a separate problem is condensation in the display. He says that specific engineering revisions at the manufacturer have fixed the connections problem. The second problem - which if I understood well is a more cosmetic problem and does not lead to lasting damage - can still occur for instruments mounted in a damp environment (back of instruments) with temp fluctuations (e.g. in the instrument garage over my companionway). His advice is that once the first problem has occured the instrument is (eventually) toast even if it comes back to life temporarily (with extensive use of the backlight). Second problem should not cause lasting damage to the unit.

I didn't have the neck to ask him if they were discontinuing the line - perhaps I will call back using a foreign accent tomorrow!

Return/repair terms are the following - under warranty it will be replaced via the local dealer (with Northstar branded kit). Out of warranty units can be sent back to them direct and will be replaced at a cost of RRP-around_35%.

So now I have one unit to send for a warranty replacement and three to send to them for a 35% discount Navman->Northstar swap. I would change it all for another vendor but I do like the Navbus system and have used it to minimise wiring runs to the compaionway instrument pod. Plus I really like the 6507 plotter and can't really afford to replace that too.

 

[FullCircle]

So now I have one unit to send for a warranty replacement and three to send to them for a 35% discount Navman->Northstar swap. I would change it all for another vendor but I do like the Navbus system and have used it to minimise wiring runs to the compaionway instrument pod. Plus I really like the 6507 plotter and can't really afford to replace that too.

Not necessarily. I ensured that my rights were protected under European Warranty laws that state that you have 2 years to register your complaint OF A LATENT DESIGN DEFECT with a 100% eventual failure, with the manufacturers or their agents.
Then the warranty kicks in such that you have free replacement items, and the Warranty is ZEROED at each replacement. Thus I had 3 sets of complete replacements, 2 from Plastimo, and 1 from Northstar (via Plastimo as they handed over me units).

I know that you may not have necessarily done this, in which case too bad, but 35% is a pretty good deal. But have a look at your invoice, check your last replacement time with Plaastimo, and you may get away with the claim if latent design defect. They would have a hard time arguing with you.

Mine have a little condensation, but no failure, so I believe what the nice Northstar bloke says.

 

[FullCircle]

I would change it all for another vendor but I do like the Navbus system and have used it to minimise wiring runs to the compaionway instrument pod. Plus I really like the 6507 plotter and can't really afford to replace that too.

I have the Navbus junction box - it works just like an NMEA junction box, and outputs NMEA too.
Mine instructs both a JRC Radar/Chartplotter, my ST4000 Wheelpilot and my Silva S15 Radio, so you wouldnt need to change that even if you changed the instruments.

 

[RobbieH]

I have the Navbus junction box - it works just like an NMEA junction box, and outputs NMEA too.
Mine instructs both a JRC Radar/Chartplotter, my ST4000 Wheelpilot and my Silva S15 Radio, so you wouldnt need to change that even if you changed the instruments.

If I understood correctly each instrument plugged into a Navbus also has a separate NMEA output port (yellow/white connector). So I would still need NMEA multiplexing as i would need to get depth/speed and wind info up to the companionway from the cabin (because Navbus doesn't do the transmission of NMEA sentences it just provides a way to get them out of the instrument at the point where that instrument is connected to Navbus).

My setup is a Navbus connector in the cabin linking to a 3100 multi and a wind 3150 feeding another Navbus connector in the instrument garage over the companionway with the plotter, repeater and a wind 3150 mounted in the garage. So I suppose I would need to feed a NMEA multiplexer in the cabin and then up top demultiplex to feed the sparate instruments.

I'd have to price that but I think the cost of 2 multiplexors etc. might push up to the point where I might as well renew the plotter as well.

Or have I misunderstood your setup - can you describe it a little further?

 

[RobbieH]

Not necessarily. I ensured that my rights were protected under European Warranty laws that state that you have 2 years to register your complaint OF A LATENT DESIGN DEFECT with a 100% eventual failure, with the manufacturers or their agents.
Then the warranty kicks in such that you have free replacement items, and the Warranty is ZEROED at each replacement. Thus I had 3 sets of complete replacements, 2 from Plastimo, and 1 from Northstar (via Plastimo as they handed over me units).
QUOTE]


For that to work you ned to know that the unit will fail within two years of buying it. I don't see the difference between that and a two year warranty (except for the zeroing date to that of the replacement)

Anyway it's too late for most of the instruments as they came with the boat and are more than two years old. Just one of the 3150s is still inside warranty - but I will be sure to register my complaint of a latent defect for it! Thanks for the tip

 

[FullCircle]

If I understood correctly each instrument plugged into a Navbus also has a separate NMEA output port (yellow/white connector). So I would still need NMEA multiplexing as i would need to get depth/speed and wind info up to the companionway from the cabin (because Navbus doesn't do the transmission of NMEA sentences it just provides a way to get them out of the instrument at the point where that instrument is connected to Navbus).

My setup is a Navbus connector in the cabin linking to a 3100 multi and a wind 3150 feeding another Navbus connector in the instrument garage over the companionway with the plotter, repeater and a wind 3150 mounted in the garage. So I suppose I would need to feed a NMEA multiplexer in the cabin and then up top demultiplex to feed the sparate instruments.

I'd have to price that but I think the cost of 2 multiplexors etc. might push up to the point where I might as well renew the plotter as well.

Or have I misunderstood your setup - can you describe it a little further?

A picture paints a thousand words.....