Daverw
Well-known member
I’ve been watching a couple of sailing youtube channels, obe in particular “odd life crafting“ seem to be lift their keel as you would whilst dinghy sailing. I’ve never done this with ours. Does anyone do this?
Adjusting keel whilst sailing
- Thread starter Daverw
- Start date
fredrussell
Well-known member
Nah. I have a lifting keel and tried it a few times sailing downwind but it made no appreciable difference to speed and made boat less stable (keel has a tonne of lead at the bottom).
Daverw
Well-known member
That’s was my thoughts, in a dinghy the reduction in water resistance does make a difference until your fully on the plane but before long it would all go wrong and I they would get very wet ? not helped by letting the boom go forward as well. Cannot see any reason to do this in a yacht.
johnalison
Well-known member
I can see that reducing the wetted surface could be an advantage when sailing downwind in light conditions but I think you would have to be a bit obsessional to do it. Not like my old Firefly which would not-very-gracefully submerge itself if you tried to plane with the board right down.
wombat88
Well-known member
I had a Jaguar 21 with a lifting keel, I tried it half way up when running and it wasn't nice, but then the boat would plane with it down in the right conditions.
Telstar26
Active member
On my Parker 21 Lift Keel, with plenty of ballast in the floor of the boat, I regularly lift the keel at least halfway when off the wind. Definitely faster, less twitchy and reduces the rolling on a run. In big waves, I'd feel less safe with the keel right down.
Stemar
Well-known member
I reckon that's what makes the difference.
Otherwise, it's useful when that big boat you're following over the shallow bit turns out to be a Southerly
Neeves
Well-known member
Quite large yachts have dagger boards, they are commonly lifted downwind (which is why they are dagger boards and not keels. No experience, at all, myself - ours are fixed.
Jonathan
Jonathan
UK-WOOZY
Well-known member
dunedin
Well-known member
Yes, depends a lot on whether talking about a lifting “keel” (which has ballast to keep the boat upright) vs a lightweight centreboard or daggerboard. Lifting slightly the latter types can help the balance downwind, reducing the tendency to broach.
Lifting a ballasted keel when under sail can clearly have other untoward consequences for stability.
Interesting the reference to avoiding rolling on a run - even in dinghies, it is sometimes necessary to put a bit more centreboard down to suppress rolling.
Lifting a ballasted keel when under sail can clearly have other untoward consequences for stability.
Interesting the reference to avoiding rolling on a run - even in dinghies, it is sometimes necessary to put a bit more centreboard down to suppress rolling.
neil_s
Well-known member
Yes - on my Seal 28, lowering the keel fully takes some weather helm out, as well as improving stability. In light winds, I don't bother winding it down (150 turns!).
westernman
Well-known member
On enterprises, we used to have about a quarter board down when going downwind in strong winds, then very briefly completely raise it when gybing. Also we would heel the boat to leeward entering the gybe (at the same time as steering fairly agressively towards the new gybe to counteract the heel) so as to make it easier for the boat to go sidewise as the boom comes across. Immediately the boom comes accross the helm was then put pretty hard to the other side - to stop any tendency to round up. Then the board went back down a bit before the first roll!
I got it right.
Some of the time.
dunedin
Well-known member
On enterprises, we used to have about a quarter board down when going downwind in strong winds, then very briefly completely raise it when gybing. Also we would heel the boat to leeward entering the gybe (at the same time as steering fairly agressively towards the new gybe to counteract the heel) so as to make it easier for the boat to go sidewise as the boom comes across. Immediately the boom comes accross the helm was then put pretty hard to the other side - to stop any tendency to round up. Then the board went back down a bit before the first roll!
I got it right.
Some of the time.
Wow, I never fully lifted the board in the Enterprise when gybing - always left it a bit down to give a bit more predictability. Mind you we were racing with about 18 stone total crew weight, and gybes didn’t always end up with mast above the board, so may have got this wrong.
However, I know a couple of brothers who did know how to sail these things (1st & 2nd in a championship fleet of 200+) so might ask them if I was doing it wrong all these years ago - never too late to learn.
westernman
Well-known member
By strong winds I mean really strong winds. The speed indicator in the club-house would indicate F9. This is on a reservoir so compared to anywhere else the waves are comparatively small. The race winners would be those who capsized the least often. I don't think anyone did not capsize at least once.
We went over close hauled a couple of times even with the main and jib completely flying and both of us leaning out as far as possible. Down wind was really exciting requiring split second reactions. Gybing late at the mark would take a long time on the beat to make up.
Anyway, completely raising the centreboard at the critical moment for a couple of seconds (no more), made the gybes slightly more controlled and gave a better chance of not going over.
Good fun for the younger gentleman.
dunedin
Well-known member
Only place I have seen dinghy racing in these sorts of winds was at Southport 24 Hour Race back in the day, when they had spent so much they felt the couldn’t afford to cancel. Some were racing Enterprises and GPs under jib only - with two people flat out hiking. Some clever teams had brought cruising mainsails. Others tried full sail but couldn’t stay up for more than a couple of minutes.
All would have been fun, except it continued overnight in pitch dark, and none of the battery lights lasted the first caplsize.
And youngsters today …….
PS Apologies for further thread drift
johnalison
Well-known member
We had a sailing match against another school on Barton Broad in 1956. Saturday was lovely but Sunday was the day of the great Channel Gale descibed in Adlard Coles' book on weather. We were sailing a mixture of Fireflies and Cadets and conditions were so wild that the masters in charge changed the rules so that any boat that rounded the marks and finished was deemed to have completed the course and all other rules were suspended. We all got wet.
Bathdave
Well-known member
I used to race windsurfers a lot and would routinely raise the dagger board off the wind if planing
We have a southerly with a cast iron lifting keel
the keel provides a lot of stability down and the boat rolls a lot with it all the way up
from time to time I have experimented with different keel settings going very broad and dead down wind
I see a very slight increase in boat speed with the keel mostly raised
We have a southerly with a cast iron lifting keel
the keel provides a lot of stability down and the boat rolls a lot with it all the way up
from time to time I have experimented with different keel settings going very broad and dead down wind
I see a very slight increase in boat speed with the keel mostly raised
AngusMcDoon
Well-known member
Dragonfly trimarans have their centreboard raised when downwind, otherwise they clonk on every wave. Doesn't seem to make any difference to boat speed.
Mistroma
Well-known member
I have done it a few times. Once when the course went close to a large area of shallows and I could shorten the course with zero risk whilst others either kept fingers crossed or tacked earlier. I remember another time approaching the meadulse rocks and I took the keel up a little even though there was another yacht well ahead. We tacked as late as possible and saw him hard aground when I looked back. Very embarrassing for him as there was a great picture in the Scotsman newspaper showing him dried out a few hours later.
I've faked it as well when tacking close to small island (more of a rock) with a slight ledge of one side. We were very close to another yacht and I said he was being very brave, he responded that I was even closer to the shallow patch. I said we were well safe with our keel up, he went white and tacked immediately. He should have realised our keel must be down or we'd just be sliding sideways.
My Southerly actually sailed quite well and stability wasn't hugely affected by lifting the swing fin keel. The main risk of damage would be to allow the keel to bang up and down. However, she'd just gently slow down when touching the bottom with the keel up a few inches. You wouldn't feel any contact at all if the bottom was soft, just a very slow reduction in speed.
I've faked it as well when tacking close to small island (more of a rock) with a slight ledge of one side. We were very close to another yacht and I said he was being very brave, he responded that I was even closer to the shallow patch. I said we were well safe with our keel up, he went white and tacked immediately. He should have realised our keel must be down or we'd just be sliding sideways.
My Southerly actually sailed quite well and stability wasn't hugely affected by lifting the swing fin keel. The main risk of damage would be to allow the keel to bang up and down. However, she'd just gently slow down when touching the bottom with the keel up a few inches. You wouldn't feel any contact at all if the bottom was soft, just a very slow reduction in speed.
Daydream believer
Well-known member
I always left a tiny bit of centreboard down when gybing. Not a lot. Just enough to make it easier to pull it right out when in the water to help getting the boat back up after the inevitable capsize