Adding a mizzen mast to a sloop boat, good o bad idea?

[Spanjaard]

I know… if it works don’t fix it!!!

However, I am curious: how many of you have converted from sloop to yawl just for the sake of experimenting?

It could serve as a radar mast; it allows for the installation of an additional mizzen staysail; it increases the sail plan allowing for other configurations such as jib and jigger...

However I haven’t seen many yawl conversions. It must be for a reason.

Would you recommend installing a small mizzen mast? Or definitely this is a no go area?

 

[roaringgirl]

I know… if it works don’t fix it!!!

However, I am curious: how many of you have converted from sloop to yawl just for the sake of experimenting?

It could serve as a radar mast; it allows for the installation of an additional mizzen staysail; it increases the sail plan allowing for other configurations such as jib and jigger...

However I haven’t seen many yawl conversions. It must be for a reason.

Would you recommend installing a small mizzen mast? Or definitely this is a no go area?

A ketch isn't just a sloop with an extra mast, the mainmast is further forward than it would be on a sloop - which is why raising the mizzen helps us to point higher, and why she steers herself dead-down-wind when goose-winged.

I have no idea under what circumstances, adding a mizzen to sloop would improve handling or performance, perhaps if the original sloop had been designed by my 7 year old?

 

[Kukri]

It hasn’t been done much, really, since the early days of offshore racing (the rig carried a small rating allowance, but the real benefit was that the mizzen staysail was “free” under the RORC and CCA Rules).

One famous example of a conversion to yawl was Alec Rose’s “Lively Lady”, as re-rigged by Illingworth and Primrose before his circumnavigation. In that case there was no mizzen sail as such (it would have interfered with the wind vane) - the mizzen was just to set a mizzen staysail on.

It gives you somewhere to wear an ensign, and there are those who say that setting a sail aft can help a boat to lie quietly at anchor, but then there are those who say the opposite.

Yawls do look pretty.

 

[dunedin]

Bad. More windage, more weight aloft, more weather helm, more maintenance, etc
No benefits other than perhaps a very complex way of creating an anchor steadying sail

 

[roaringgirl]

Slocum had a removable mizzen on the "Spray"

 

[Spanjaard]

Good point. What would have done Slocum should he had access to carbon fibre?

 

[graham]

I think it wont improve performance much if at all and will increase weather helm .

I have seen quite a few sloops that had bowsprits fitted to reduce weather helm .

 

[Kukri]

The Falmouth Quay Punts were all yawls, slightly unusual in that they had transom sterns with the mizzen mast off centre to clear the tiller.

Falmouth Quay Punt - Wikipedia

 

[Spanjaard]

With today's technlogy I dont think that a carbon removable mizzen mast would weight more than 5 pounds on a 30" booat.
It could even been clamped to the boat's deck without the need of any additional rigging.

I agree with Kukri:

Yawls look pretty...

 

[William_H]

I know… if it works don’t fix it!!!

However, I am curious: how many of you have converted from sloop to yawl just for the sake of experimenting?

It could serve as a radar mast; it allows for the installation of an additional mizzen staysail; it increases the sail plan allowing for other configurations such as jib and jigger...

However I haven’t seen many yawl conversions. It must be for a reason.

Would you recommend installing a small mizzen mast? Or definitely this is a no go area?

Perhaps the question should be "how many yawl or ketch boats have been converted to sloop rig" the answer is many. ol'will

 

[roaringgirl]

Perhaps the question should be "how many yawl or ketch boats have been converted to sloop rig" the answer is many. ol'will

It's an awful thing to do to a ketch! You can point about 10 degrees higher when you raise our mizzen!

 

[Spanjaard]

Perhaps the question should be "how many yawl or ketch boats have been converted to sloop rig" the answer is many. ol'will

That could be an interesting post.

Obvoiouly it is a convertion but in this case not adding but substracting,
I wonder why anyone would be motivated to convert a ketch into a sloop. (a yawl I coul understand).

You know, most people who convert, they convert in "positive" that is 'adding' stays or sails to the existing rig:
Convert to a solent, to a cutter, slutter, staysail mizzen...

 

[Spanjaard]

It's an awful thing to do to a ketch! You can point about 10 degrees higher when you raise our mizzen!

For me it would be sad.
More sad even, would be seing a schooner conerted into sloop.
Other people may disagree with this. But this is comparable to some people that might love the Shard rising over the Tower of London. For me, that sight is an abomination regardless of its practicallity or funcionalllity.
Not trying to be controversial, but there is something beautiful in schooners, ketchs and yawls..irregardless of being ia bad idea adding a mizzen mast to a sloop .

 

[LONG_KEELER]

I know… if it works don’t fix it!!!

However, I am curious: how many of you have converted from sloop to yawl just for the sake of experimenting?

It could serve as a radar mast; it allows for the installation of an additional mizzen staysail; it increases the sail plan allowing for other configurations such as jib and jigger...

However I haven’t seen many yawl conversions. It must be for a reason.

Would you recommend installing a small mizzen mast? Or definitely this is a no go area?

How about sticking a whacking great bumpkin aft and putting a sail on that.
In the case of Slocum, I'm guessing that depending on what part of the world he was in, the rig and sail plan was optimised for self steering.

 

[Concerto]

With today's technlogy I dont think that a carbon removable mizzen mast would weight more than 5 pounds on a 30" boat.

Are you talking about a pond yacht? As a 30" yacht is very small. LOL

Personally, your first sentence in the original post sums it up correctly. "I know… if it works don’t fix it!!! "

You may need to shorten your boom and the foot of the mainsail, plus alter your backstay. As to fitting an unstayed mast, how would the sail loading be converted into forward motion? Even a windsurfer sail can exert quite a load if you consider the body weight of the sailor is all that is stopping it from blowing over. Even a simple experiment could cost quite a lot of money with very little benefit.

A major reason why ketches became popular in the 1960's and 70's was the problem of sail control due to very small winches. By adding an extra mast and sail, the rig became more flexible and manageable with small winches. As winches became more powerful, so the popularity of the sloop rig increased to its almost complete domination of all new yacht sales. The cost and weight saving of a sloop, plus its simplicty, along with better hull design, almost completely remove any need for a mizzen mast.

 

[DanTribe]

I think that ketches and yawls are very picturesque and I'm pleased that other people have them for me to look at. But, for me, the added complication of rigging and sailing is not worth the faff and performance never seems to be improved.
One downside which I never thought of came when I sailed on two different friend's ketches.
On long night passages the dew condensed on the mizzen and dripped on the helmsman. I thought it had been raining for hours until I noticed that I was the only one wet!

 

[Blueboatman]

I think Slocum wanted to reduce the weight of his enormous mainsail and it’s huge wooden boom.

Be amazed if one could build, stay and rig a mizzen for less than 50kg?

but….my understanding of gaff rig vs high aspect bermudian is that the former is less susceptible to losing drive when pitching into lumpy seas, maybe ??
Certainly one reads a bit about how comfortable at sea are yawls and ketches with the main dropped yet a mizzen and jib doing the work .
Or perhaps modern shapely sailcloth technology and full battens have superseded that ??

 

[Bilgediver]

I know… if it works don’t fix it!!!

However, I am curious: how many of you have converted from sloop to yawl just for the sake of experimenting?

It could serve as a radar mast; it allows for the installation of an additional mizzen staysail; it increases the sail plan allowing for other configurations such as jib and jigger...

However I haven’t seen many yawl conversions. It must be for a reason.

Would you recommend installing a small mizzen mast? Or definitely this is a no go area?

Might need to do things with the main to maintain sail balance and reduce weather helm. Maybe even reefing the main might help. Certainly jib and mizzen is a great combination when things get lively.

 

[Koeketiene]

Bad. More windage, more weight aloft, more weather helm, more maintenance, etc
No benefits other than perhaps a very complex way of creating an anchor steadying sail

Entirely agree.
Adding a mizzen mast to a sloop is a solution in search of a problem: entirely pointless.
Extra costs for no or little benefit.

 

[roaringgirl]

The mizzen sail is our fourth and fifth reef.

The other advantage that is very rarely mentioned is that the mainmast is further forward, so ddw goosewinged is perfectly balanced.