PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
Which part of "using it for routine charging leaves the operator vulnerable to flat batteries in certain failure cases, or if he should forget to switch it back later. " is incorrect ?
Adding a 3rd battery or, a higher amp alternator? Which is best? Both isn’t the answer! CPAP
- Thread starter Yeoman_24
- Start date
Which part of "using it for routine charging leaves the operator vulnerable to flat batteries in certain failure cases, or if he should forget to switch it back later. " is incorrect ?
geem
Well-Known Member
Nothing. Its the “The "both" setting should only be used for emergencies” that is wrong.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
So, you accept that "using it for routine charging leaves the operator vulnerable to flat batteries in certain failure cases, or if he should forget to switch it back later " are both correct, but still maintain that using the "Both" setting is the correct method of operation ?
Feel free to use your switch however you see fit, but my advise to anyone will always be the same, don't use the both setting, except for emergencies.
William_H
Well-Known Member
Hello Paul. You are not necessarily wrong. What I was trying to do was describe a progression for OP by stages from what he has to what could be a far better system. Waht is important I reitterate is that he understands what he is doing and why with that 1,2,both switch. ol'will
lw395
Well-Known Member
Classically, the 'both' setting is used for charging, whenever the engine is running.
Bobc
Well-Known Member
As others have said, adding a starter battery and having your 2 existing batteries as the house bank is the way to go.
To boost the charging of this setup, you could consider a Sterling AtoB charger. This will help to get the most out of the alternator with an intelligent charging regime.
On another note altogether, if you suffer from sleep aponea, it may well be worth you taking a look at this product which was released last week. I know the people behind it, and it may well help with your condition. Link below:-
www.snoozeal.com
To boost the charging of this setup, you could consider a Sterling AtoB charger. This will help to get the most out of the alternator with an intelligent charging regime.
On another note altogether, if you suffer from sleep aponea, it may well be worth you taking a look at this product which was released last week. I know the people behind it, and it may well help with your condition. Link below:-
www.snoozeal.com
vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
My boat came with 3 x 110 Ah batteries, two domestic and one starter. They sit in a moulding in the aft cabin with little option to add anything else in that location. We have solar panels providing 125 watts. Running our fridge 24/7 in Greece it was quite common to see 12.0 volts on the domestic bank first thing in the morning.
I combined the three batteries into the domestic bank and added a Red Flash 1100 starter that could fit inside the engine compartment alongside the gearbox. The change was remarkable, morning voltage rarely below 12.4 volts. Same 55 A alternator throughout.
I have always had a 1-2-both switch and have no problems with it. My normal practice is to rarely start on the starter battery, maybe once or twice per week, run for half an hour or so then back to domestic bank. Otherwise start on the domestic bank.
I combined the three batteries into the domestic bank and added a Red Flash 1100 starter that could fit inside the engine compartment alongside the gearbox. The change was remarkable, morning voltage rarely below 12.4 volts. Same 55 A alternator throughout.
I have always had a 1-2-both switch and have no problems with it. My normal practice is to rarely start on the starter battery, maybe once or twice per week, run for half an hour or so then back to domestic bank. Otherwise start on the domestic bank.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
Classically, people believed the World was flat.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
Hi Will, your progression was fine and i agree with that, i just don't like seeing people routinely using the switch on both. There are those on here that insist that using the switch on "both" is the correct way of using it and insist on posting the opinion here, with no explanation to the unwary of the potential pitfalls of doing so.
Your point about understanding the system is a very important one
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
I did touch on your method in post #14 Vyv. I understand this is also mentioned in Nigel Calders book, i've also a seen it mentioned by Maine Sail, it is, of course, a perfectly acceptable way of using the switch.
ditchcrawler
Well-Known Member
I combined my two 110 ah batteries into one domestic bank and added an AGM Red Flash starter battery due to space problems. The Red Flash lasted 8 years and was still ok but I was going on a trip to Holland so changed it for a new one and changed the domestics as well. I use 1/2/ both switch which I am used to and I like as I can control how long each battery is charged. I tried a VSR but it kept chattering back and forth. The makers Victron said it was due to the disparity between the size of the battery banks. I start my engine on the Red Flash from cold run for 15 minutes or so then switch over to domestics. When the engine is warm it then starts fine on the domestics without switching back so avoiding a trip down below. My domestic bank are Numax sealed batteries and I replaced with the same as they worked for me. My Sterling alternator charger is set to 14.4 v which seems to suit the sealed batteries as well as the AGM.
geem
Well-Known Member
Your advise is fine for those who wish to accept it. Me and many others who have a life time of sailing experience and tens of thousands of miles under their keel don't find the need for a device that doesn't do what they want. I will decide when to join my batteries together for charging not a piece of electronics. When you have multiple charging systems such as a diesel genset, large solar array, towed generator and wind generator you are not reliant on the alternator to charge the batteries. I have never forgotten to take the batteries off the both position on the switch. The large led voltage displays for each battery bank clearly show voltage on each bank 24/7. If they are the same readings then hay, maybe the switch is still on both! So in my case and many others the both position is not for emergency use. It doesnt matter how many times you say it on this forum I will keep correcting you. All boats are not the same. There is more than one way to skin a cat.
MrB18
N/A
Must agree with that. Adding batteries increase your available AmpH available. My domestic bank is some 600 now. I also use a 1/both/2 switching system despite please here to use relays and such.
MrB18
N/A
Well said, we pays our money and makes our choices, when will others accept that we prefer to be in charge, enjoy the routine and the discipline, and not a piece of electronics, which invaluable as they are in so many other areas, are not required if we decide so.
lw395
Well-Known Member
Unless you have the means to charge them, adding more batteries doesn't always help.
I had a quick google which suggests a CPAP battery for one night use is about 2.6Ah.
So it seems to me the OP's problem is not necessarily battery capacity.
A stand alone portable lithium pack of some sort might be an option.
I'd be looking at some solar to ensure that the existing batteries are always starting from fully charged, but, like everyone else, I am thinking from the point of view of how we use our boat. Someone who does a lot of engine hours will have less issues keeping batteries fully charged just from the alternator.
RupertW
Well-Known Member
They insist on posting the opinion here because the opinion is correct. You recommend charging both battery banks together provided an automatic switch is controlling it but are totally opposed to a human brain making exactly the same choice.Hi Will, your progression was fine and i agree with that, i just don't like seeing people routinely using the switch on both. There are those on here that insist that using the switch on "both" is the correct way of using it and insist on posting the opinion here, with no explanation to the unwary of the potential pitfalls of doing so.
Your point about understanding the system is a very important one
Nobody is disputing that a manual system is not protected against human failure. We get that. We also know that we have never failed in this way and we are not responsible for fitting foolproof systems professionally like you are. It’s like telling us we should always use springs when tying up as every other way is wrong. Nothing wrong with a VSR but it’s still a choice and is not technically any better - just less prone to failure by inexperienced people.
De.windhoos
Well-Known Member
Why the emergency combine switch? why not use a Victron Cyrix-CT? it has a "power-assist" function that you can wire in. 30 quid and Bob's your uncle. The domestic and engine switch are then only used to switch off the batteries when not in use.Sorry Will, i have to disagree here. The "both" setting should only be used for emergencies, using it for routine charging leaves the operator vulnerable to flat batteries in certain failure cases, or if he should forget to switch it back later.
The other school of thought is to just use the bigger bank for everything, including engine starting, and keep the smaller battery as an emergency for engine starting. Nothing wrong with either method.
This would be the best way of doing it, with some form of split charging and a 3rd switch for emergencies. Here's a basic schematic for anyone interested.
grandpaboat
Well-Known Member
Solar power 24/7 - that's a neat trick unless you are above the Arctic circle in summer!
MrB18
N/A
You are correct. The question was about increasing ampH or not, so increasing his battery total is the correct answer.
Charging is a different matter, which you are right to point out, of which there are many ways to do so, rather than running the engine.
Increasing battery capacity I would have thought the OP had considered the consequences.
Depending where you are can determine the source of charging, in the Med. for me solar panels were ideal, where to mount them can be a challenge on smaller boats.
Wind power another of course.
RupertW
Well-Known Member
Far be it from me to defend Paul’s statement but many of us run off solar power 24/7. That’s what battery banks are for and I don’t know any other way of using solar.
