Active Radar Reflector - My recent experience

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Swmbo and I recently came from Arklow accross the Irish Sea to Fishguard starting out in the early hours.

Soon after passing the southern end of Arklow bank we heard a call on VHF Ch16. It was not a Mayday or Pan Pan.
Although we couldn't readily make out all the call content, it was repeated several times each hour. When daylight came and I was less busy with thinking and concentrating on other things in the challenging conditions, I eventually caught the call in its entirity and managed to confirm the caller was saying something to the effect of "The vessel in position N....W.... please return return our call".

We partly ignored the call early on as we were missing those first words "the vessel in position" and sadly none of the call was repeated. If the caller had preceded his short call with something like "This is Coastwatch, this is Coastwatch, this is Coastwatch" then perhaps immediate attention would have been drawn to the call.

Anyway, I responded to the call on Ch16 after we were over halfway accross to Fishguard not knowing who was making the call.
I said I believe you may be trying to contact my boat as we are close to the position given and ais/radar and mk1 eyeball could see no other vessel and in fact we hadn't seen another boat all day.
We immediatly changed to another channel and the guy on the other end at one of the Welsh Coastwatch stations apologised for troubling me saying that it was a very quiet watch and they were doing an exercise using our boat.
He asked what type of vessel we were and where were we headed etc..
It transpired that he thought we were probably a large enough vessel that required ais to be transmitted but we were not transmitting ais and he had tracked us since the early hours and saw us as a large target on the radar screen.

I explained that we were a 33foot grp yacht.
He was a little taken back and I explained that we had a duo channel active radar reflector at the masthead and I was really pleased that he could verify that it was working well over 10's of miles, as this was the first confirmation that I had spent my money well.

 

[sailorman]

Swmbo and I recently came from Arklow accross the Irish Sea to Fishguard starting out in the early hours.

Soon after passing the southern end of Arklow bank we heard a call on VHF Ch16. It was not a Mayday or Pan Pan.
Although we couldn't readily make out all the call content, it was repeated several times each hour. When daylight came and I was less busy with thinking and concentrating on other things in the challenging conditions, I eventually caught the call in its entirity and managed to confirm the caller was saying something to the effect of "The vessel in position N....W.... please return return our call".

We partly ignored the call early on as we were missing those first words "the vessel in position" and sadly none of the call was repeated. If the caller had preceded his short call with something like "This is Coastwatch, this is Coastwatch, this is Coastwatch" then perhaps immediate attention would have been drawn to the call.

Anyway, I responded to the call on Ch16 after we were over halfway accross to Fishguard not knowing who was making the call.
I said I believe you may be trying to contact my boat as we are close to the position given and ais/radar and mk1 eyeball could see no other vessel and in fact we hadn't seen another boat all day.
We immediatly changed to another channel and the guy on the other end at one of the Welsh Coastwatch stations apologised for troubling me saying that it was a very quiet watch and they were doing an exercise using our boat.
He asked what type of vessel we were and where were we headed etc..
It transpired that he thought we were probably a large enough vessel that required ais to be transmitted but we were not transmitting ais and he had tracked us since the early hours and saw us as a large target on the radar screen.

I explained that we were a 33foot grp yacht.
He was a little taken back and I explained that we had a duo channel active radar reflector at the masthead and I was really pleased that he could verify that it was working well over 10's of miles as this was the first confirmation that I had spent my monety well.

Not wishing to be Devils Advocate, but it could end up like a building site with everybody wearing HiViz .
Ok in large areas but at close range

 

[pvb]

Not wishing to be Devils Advocate, but it could end up like a building site with everybody wearing HiViz .
Ok in large areas but at close range

You mean, like yachts having AIS transponders?

 

[sailorman]

You mean, like yachts having AIS transponders?

Yes

 

[dt4134]

Not wishing to be Devils Advocate, but it could end up like a building site with everybody wearing HiViz .
Ok in large areas but at close range

Is that not what we've got already with the SOLAS requirement to have radar reflectors? The only difference is that RTE's seem to work whereas passive radar reflectors are pretty poor.

So it's more like replacing the scruffy old shabby HiViz with a bright new shiny one.

 

[nimbusgb]

Or every house in a street having a burglar alarm.

It all keeps the economy going!

 

[sailorman]

Is that not what we've got already with the SOLAS requirement to have radar reflectors? The only difference is that RTE's seem to work whereas passive radar reflectors are pretty poor.

So it's more like replacing the scruffy old shabby HiViz with a bright new shiny one.

What happen if they all have them in The Solent

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Not wishing to be Devils Advocate, but it could end up like a building site with everybody wearing HiViz .
Ok in large areas but at close range

Point taken if sailing in the Solent on a sunny day but on a terrible day Solent/North Sea/offshore I'd rather have the gismos!

 

[Rivers & creeks]

You mean, like yachts having AIS transponders?

The difference is that ships use MARPA and every one of them has a big radar screen, so it's good that they can see you.

Most yachts don't have MARPA, so they want to use AIS to keep clear of ships and use the inbuilt software for CPAs and TCPAs - all of which is knackered by class B AIS transponders.

Ships rarely have AIS display screens, just three line text readouts of AIS positions - useful

So using active RADAR means everyone sees you, use class B AIS transponders and pretty much only yachts see you and you screw up their alarms. Ho hum.

 

[Hoolie]

I think you're all being bloody negative + thread drift.

I think the OP's experience is valuable and thanks for sharing it. An active radar transponder is a completely different animal to Class B AIS and offshore is definitely an asset, as confirmed by the OP. At least you'll be taken seriously by any large vessel picking you up.

 

[dt4134]

What happen if they all have them in The Solent

Lots of big echoes.

 

[lw395]

What make and model of transponder is that?

If the range really is '10's of miles', I am surprised the signal from your transponder doesn't set off everyone else's transponder if you see what I mean.
I'd like to do the maths.
Cheers.

 

[Hoolie]

What make and model of transponder is that?

If the range really is '10's of miles', I am surprised the signal from your transponder doesn't set off everyone else's transponder if you see what I mean.
I'd like to do the maths.
Cheers.

They don't work in the same power region as radars. They are only an enhanced response to augment your radar cross-section

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Point taken if sailing in the Solent on a sunny day but on a terrible day Solent/North Sea/offshore I'd rather have the gismos!

That's been my thinking too, and I will buy an RTE in due course.

Presumably it can be on its own 12volt switch, so you can turn it off when not needed - eg a bright summer's day in the Solent.

 

[AHoy2]

As an active radar target enhancer is only returning responses to the interrrogating radar there should be no/minimal issue with cluttering screens on other radars. Each operator will be selecting the range/definition suitable to their needs and if you are there you need to be a visible return to them. No need to turn off active RTEs - unless you also use a cloaking device when in visual contact.

p.s. good original post.

 

[maxi77]

There is a downside to enhancers and that is they can absorb disproportionate time form the OOW as he tries to resolve this big echo which cannot be seen.

I once had this experience heading in to the NATO fuel depot in Loch Striven when we picked up a strong radar contact which we could not see, we very nearly aborted our approach until we realised it was a couple of swans.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

They don't work in the same power region as radars. They are only an enhanced response to augment your radar cross-section

I used to have a SeaMe on my previous boat but now have added an Echomax XS Dual band on this boat.
I only switch it on when in poor conditions. It shows a green flashing light when my boat is painted by 'x' band radar and a yellow when painted by 's' band.
It has an audible alarm which can be either switched on or off.
It only uses 23ma on standby.
It did come out slightly better than the SeaMe in the PBO test.
S.

 

[Malish]

There is a downside to enhancers and that is they can absorb disproportionate time form the OOW as he tries to resolve this big echo which cannot be seen.

I once had this experience heading in to the NATO fuel depot in Loch Striven when we picked up a strong radar contact which we could not see, we very nearly aborted our approach until we realised it was a couple of swans.

Is that Swans the boats or swans the birds, if the latter and they have active transponders then evolution has stepped up a gear

We have a Sea Me, only switched it on once last year to check that it is working - it is there for murky conditions in the Thames and the Channel. Leaving it switched on in clear conditions seems of little value.

 

[wotayottie]

Or every house in a street having a burglar alarm.

It all keeps the economy going!

With the consequence that everyone ignores burglar alarms going off.

 

[wotayottie]

he had tracked us since the early hours and saw us as a large target on the radar screen.

I explained that we were a 33foot grp yacht.
He was a little taken back and I explained that we had a duo channel active radar reflector at the masthead and I was really pleased that he could verify that it was working well over 10's of miles as this was the first confirmation that I had spent my money well.

I can relate to your pleasure at finding an expensive toy working well, but just think for a moment. What is the benefit to you nor anyone else of being seen by radar at 20 miles? No one will take avoiding action that far off. Even at 5 miles its unlikely to trigger anything more than a mental note to keep an eye on that blip. I'm sure you can think of some unlikely scenario in which that range will be of value but IMO on day to day passages its no benefit at all. In fact I find no problem sailing without a reflector at all and the stats show very few boats ever being run down.

Just a thought.