Absolute Novice...

Prima

Prima

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Hello all, this is my first post and I am a complete novice to the world of boating other than time spent in my youth sailing Mirror Dinghies and Toppers.

To cut a long story short, I've recently come into some money, and am considering purchasing a boat, nothing too grand, I'm thinking in the region of between 15-20,000 GBP to give me a realistic chance of long term ownership accounting for yearly maintenance, insurance and mooring fees etc.

The type of boat I am thinking of is something like a Sealine 285 Ambassador, the plan being to moor it in Fuengirola, Spain as I have an apartment down there which I regularly visit.

So... my question to you good people, without encumbering on your time too much, what are the basic first steps I should be taking? I've had a browse round several forums, and this one seems to be the most informative - I hate to sound so ill informed, but as yet, I haven't found a 'dummies guide' to start from - all too many posts and comments seem to assume most people have at least a basic understanding of boating, and I really am a complete newbie to it all.

I hope you won't be too harsh with me, and can be kind enough to point me in the right direction before I make any financial or life threatening disaster :D
 
Prima said:
Hello all, this is my first post and I am a complete novice to the world of boating other than time spent in my youth sailing Mirror Dinghies and Toppers.

To cut a long story short, I've recently come into some money, and am considering purchasing a boat, nothing too grand, I'm thinking in the region of between 15-20,000 GBP to give me a realistic chance of long term ownership accounting for yearly maintenance, insurance and mooring fees etc.

The type of boat I am thinking of is something like a Sealine 285 Ambassador, the plan being to moor it in Fuengirola, Spain as I have an apartment down there which I regularly visit.

So... my question to you good people, without encumbering on your time too much, what are the basic first steps I should be taking? I've had a browse round several forums, and this one seems to be the most informative - I hate to sound so ill informed, but as yet, I haven't found a 'dummies guide' to start from - all too many posts and comments seem to assume most people have at least a basic understanding of boating, and I really am a complete newbie to it all.

I hope you won't be too harsh with me, and can be kind enough to point me in the right direction before I make any financial or life threatening disaster :D
Click to expand...

Firstly welcome to the forum - it has been very patient with my questions over the years, so don't expect anything harsh.

It would be useful to understand what you would use it for, as starting out is a big enough topic in itself.

Our boats evolved with the family from a bow rider to a cuddy for water sports to a sports cruiser for going further afield. The 285 indicates more of the latter than the former.

I just looked at Sant Carles pricing on med moorings to get a ball park, and for an 8m berth (+10% tolerance) it was €2500 last year, €3,500 for a 10m.

For training I would recommend RYA powerboat level 2 (and on your own boat if possible, cheaper and familiarises yourself with your boat), and a VHF course. I have an ICC, which I think for <10m only requires a conversion certificate - but others would be best placed to answer that. I think an ICC is a pre-requisite for the Med. However contacting your local RYA centre will help you get a feel for what you need, and an indication of costs.

Insurance on our bow rider and cuddy, from memory was < £500 p.a.

Where would you buy the boat ? If in the U.K., you would need factor in transport costs. I am not sure if the 285 would fit on a (cheaper) road trailer as opposed to a low loader, if the one you are looking at is in Spain, that would be ideal.

Not sure if engine set up, but if twin diesels on outdrives, that would be another annual cost, unless you are happy doing it / them yourself.

You may want to consider a survey as well, and the one we used charged by the metre, and we covered his transport. We also had an independent engine survey as well.

Finally depending on numbers of people you plan to take out you will have to think of safety equipment as well, such as life jackets flares radios etc. - again the RYA can give you good advice.

I hope the above is not too daunting, but if so, you may want to think smaller / different layout. They say the smaller the boat the bigger the smile :encouragement:

Good luck with the search and I am sure others will be along shortly with more advice.



.
 
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If you have an apartment close by, I think you should draw up a short list of why you want a boat and what you want to do with it, and agree that with whoever. Ending up alone on a boat is often not the main idea &#55357;&#56832;
If it is just for days lazing around some bays would a rib or a boston whaler style not suit better?
I would do some hard sums because the annual cost of boating is high- it is not just the initial outlay.
 
People say the first boat you buy will be the wrong one, probably sound enough advice as you will learn what suits your wants and needs as you go along. Probably think about how easy it would be to sell, something common and popular. Can you get out on a few boats to see what they are like?
 
Go for sea trials, but don't get carried away. Almost any boat is thrilling on the open sea. What's most important to a novice is how she handles in a crowded marina. Almost all your bad moments will happen while parking and trust me it is nerve racking. Be philosophical and treat all the near disasters as a learning phase, and learn you will, in no time it'll be second nature and you'll feel like you could reverse park the Queen Mary.
Welcome to the forum:encouragement:
 
The Sealine is a lovely boat, but quite old now, and unless recently refurbished, is going to take a lot of maintenance. Are you up for this? You might have a look at a newer, but smaller Beneteau, Janneau, or an American sports boat. If you have an apartment nearby, does this mean that sleeping accommodation is less of a need?
 
Have to agree, a USA sports boat would probably be a far better option.
Do you need a bedroom?
A loo and a fridge defo and all should fit in a 25ft package
Go the Boatshed and search sports cruiser, single diesel or petrol
 
If cabin is not needed I would look at open sports fisher style outboard powered boats. Much easier and cheaper to maintain. Generally very reliable. Or maybe outboard powered karnic with sea toilet with or without cuddy.
 
Hi...
For me, thinking of your situation, I might not be tempted with a 285. They are solid boats, but having had a Sealine of similar vintage (a 218), although the boat was solid and had a great 4.3 Vpenta, the electrics started failing and started to look a bit dated.
There is also the risk you may end up with the twin terrible Volvo penta 4 cylinder engines. Why anyone put these in a boat is beyond me.
For my money in that budget, I would be going for a Sealine 240 or S24 with a 4.3 or even a diesel, if you can find one in that price bracket. The 4.3 isn't terrible on fuel and silky smooth with cheap servicing costs.
Still look really modern and current.
That's where I'd be at anyway.
Good luck.
 
I agree with others, if you have a holiday home near the marina then you may be better off with an outboard powered sportsboat. There are dozens of makes, but google Jeanneau Cap Camarat, Karnic, or White Shark to see the kind of thing. You can buy something more up to date, and it'll cost far less to maintain.
 
Wow!!! What an amazing response. Thank you all so much. You've all made many good comments, to which I will have to sit back and digest slowly

I'm in no rush to buy, even if my heart wants to go out and buy the first thing I see... I think realistically it will be next year before I take the plunge (hopefully not literally :-D )

A few of you asked if I need cabin space, and yes, I do. The reason I am looking at something like the 285 is because yes, I would like to use it for longer trips, perhaps even to rent out the aprtment in high season and live onboard whilst the weather is good to offset costs.

The reality is I would probably at most use it for trips down the coast to Gibraltar and back... stopping off along the way at smaller ports and villages... nothing too adventurous really, but enough that I'd like we can sleep on board and have a reasonable amount of space.

Thanks again to all of you that have responded, I'll certainly be back with more questions as and when needed. I'm not going down to Spain again until June, but first task will be to go to the port/marina and enquire about the moorings (I have a few questions about that also, namely, if you buy a mooring/berth, does tgat mean it is rent free forever and you just pay for electric and water? Or it's like the leasehold of a flat whereby you pay yearly ground rent?)
 
QBhoy said:
For my money in that budget, I would be going for a Sealine 240 or S24 with a 4.3 or even a diesel, if you can find one in that price bracket. The 4.3 isn't terrible on fuel and silky smooth with cheap servicing costs.
Still look really modern and current.
That's where I'd be at anyway.
Good luck.
Click to expand...
I've just been looking at the 240's, it's not one I'd even seen before, and I must say I do like the general overall layout. Definitely one to put on my list, thanks for the suggestion
 
I agree that with you having the apartment I would go for a 17 - 20 ft sports boat with outboard A bow rider would be good. You should be able to pick one up for around £5000 and use this to get used to boating you will have great fun also and if you look after the boat when you want to upgrade you should be able to sell her for similar to what you paid. Start small and then move up

Dennis
 
+1
A few years ago I wanted to buy a 45-50ft flybridge to keep in the South of Spain. To cut a long story short, SWHBO "convinced" me to buy an apartment instead, so I bought a 22ft bowrider. I may move up in a few seasons, but so far it has been all pleasure and no hassle. Cheap to maintain (single engine, no electronics to speak of, no hydraulics etc), cheap to berth, you can take her out whenever weather conditions allow you to and in the winter you can store her onshore. Boating should be pleasure, so you want minimum hassle. A sports boat will put a smile on your face from the moment you switch on the engine, temporarily interrupted when you fill her up, but then again when you open the throttles...
 
Bigplumbs said:
I agree that with you having the apartment I would go for a 17 - 20 ft sports boat with outboard A bow rider would be good. You should be able to pick one up for around £5000 and use this to get used to boating you will have great fun also and if you look after the boat when you want to upgrade you should be able to sell her for similar to what you paid. Start small and then move up

Dennis
Click to expand...

For that stretch of coastline i'd want something bigger than 17-20 feet. I think the OP's original plan of over 25' will be less restrictive as to when he can go out, and more comfortable when he does, and I think there will be options with single or twin outboards around his budget. I don't like the idea of a bowrider, as they can take on too much water in rougher sea and don't usually have capacity to disperse the water quickly. They're lake boats as far as i'm concerned. I know centre console boats can have an open bow, but the bow is higher, and they have big drainage channels to let any water flow out.

Something like this would be a good option I think: http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/2006/Sessa-Key-Largo-25-2974508/France#.WLvneoXXLOY
 
Just as an aside... why is it that sport cruisers lack any real form of windows in the cabin area? I assume it's to do with strength to the hull as a whole. but most are well above the water level anyway from what I've seen.

Obviously I'm not expecting a 180 degree panoramic, but most do seem to only have a couple of porthole type windows where I feel more could have been fitted.

Which leads me on to asking out of curiosity, is it possible to add extra windows without affecting the hull's overall integrity and strength?
 
Nick_H said:
For that stretch of coastline i'd want something bigger than 17-20 feet. I think the OP's original plan of over 25' will be less restrictive as to when he can go out, and more comfortable when he does, and I think there will be options with single or twin outboards around his budget. I don't like the idea of a bowrider, as they can take on too much water in rougher sea and don't usually have capacity to disperse the water quickly. They're lake boats as far as i'm concerned. I know centre console boats can have an open bow, but the bow is higher, and they have big drainage channels to let any water flow out.

Something like this would be a good option I think: http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/2006/Sessa-Key-Largo-25-2974508/France#.WLvneoXXLOY
Click to expand...

Well my 17 foot bow Rider has never been near a lake. Sea and coastal rivers only
 
Prima said:
Wow!!! What an amazing response. Thank you all so much. You've all made many good comments, to which I will have to sit back and digest slowly

I'm in no rush to buy, even if my heart wants to go out and buy the first thing I see... I think realistically it will be next year before I take the plunge (hopefully not literally :-D )

A few of you asked if I need cabin space, and yes, I do. The reason I am looking at something like the 285 is because yes, I would like to use it for longer trips, perhaps even to rent out the aprtment in high season and live onboard whilst the weather is good to offset costs.

The reality is I would probably at most use it for trips down the coast to Gibraltar and back... stopping off along the way at smaller ports and villages... nothing too adventurous really, but enough that I'd like we can sleep on board and have a reasonable amount of space.

Thanks again to all of you that have responded, I'll certainly be back with more questions as and when needed. I'm not going down to Spain again until June, but first task will be to go to the port/marina and enquire about the moorings (I have a few questions about that also, namely, if you buy a mooring/berth, does tgat mean it is rent free forever and you just pay for electric and water? Or it's like the leasehold of a flat whereby you pay yearly ground rent?)
Click to expand...

How many will be living on board during the summer? Even for one person it's going to be quite an uncomfortable existence in the summer heat of Spain. I wouldn't want to do it. Maybe on paper it sounds like a good idea but I'd bet that you will quickly tire of the idea after just a few weeks because of the cramped conditions, the heat, the inconvenience of getting fresh water, food etc. I suggest you think long and hard before going down that route.

To answer your other question, yes, if you buy a berth you will almost certainly be paying an annual service charge.

We too have an apartment in Spain and, having had boats for many years, I decided I wanted something to use on those sunny calm days and settled on a Jeanneau cap camarat 4.7m, the smallest they make, that I keep on a trailer, always covered so no antifouling or uv issues, no concerns about it when it gets rough, easy to launch and recover, very cheap to run, and hopefully very reliable, with its new Yamaha 4s outboard. It's great fun on the water, easy to launch and recover, I recovered it yesterday by myself, and cheap to store in the marina. Where I am, Altea, I pay just over €1,000 and for that I get 3 launches and recoveries by the marina staff, which I doubt I'll use, plus 30 nights in the water.
The downsides, which I considered carefully before going this route, are no loo, so it could cause a problem for the ladies, no running water, and of course, being a small boat you don't want to be out when it gets too rough, although it will handle lively conditions, but you and the crew could get wet!
So I have a small boat, initial cost was quite high, but for that I get reliability and a decent resale value, and I've just described my thought process as to why I went this route. I would not be tempted to buy any boat with an old possibly knackered outboard. I've been there and done that and it's soul destroying!
Good luck in what you decide, I'd suggest making lists of priorities and pros and cons of different boats, and ask lots of questions!
 
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