Absolute Growth

[MapisM]

Hopefully I think Mr and Mrs N are going to try one more season as they only got the N57 mid summer.
We plan to catch up with them ( metaphorically speaking ) next season.

Well, if you will eventually catch up again and they will want to get rid of the thing, you can pass on to them my previous offer.
Not that I'm unhappy with the DP, but after 17 years of D cruising in comfort and silence, anything else feels like a compromise.

At the end of the day, I think that's the main rationale behind the silly Nordhavns prices, either new or used:
Both the builder and the owners know that there aren't many folks around who like a boat that takes forever to get nowhere, but most of those who do are willing to pay whatever it takes...

 

[MapisM]

Nordhavn is build and finished in China.

Which is yet another reason why I'll never buy their theory that it costs much more (for any given size) to build a N'havn rather than a Ferretti, Fairline, or whatever.

Btw, just for the records, the N57 above is still one of their proper boats, built by Ta Shing in Taiwan.
I'd never consider one of their boats built in mainland China, which had problems as serious as delamination (among many others)... :ambivalence:

 

[Portofino]

I live in Sweden now, and the cost of everything in Scandinavia is disproportionally more expensive than anywhere else I've lived in Europe. Living costs and taxes (personal and business) are higher, so every hand that's been involved in production throughout the supply chain will bump up prices on anything manufactured in the area.

I think you mean a born and bread Swed would not feel the VFM discrepancy ( between a N or typically Italian built planing boat ) as acutely that MapisM native country men would.

 

[Portofino]

Well, if you will eventually catch up again and they will want to get rid of the thing, you can pass on to them my previous offer.
Not that I'm unhappy with the DP, but after 17 years of D cruising in comfort and silence, anything else feels like a compromise.

At the end of the day, I think that's the main rationale behind the silly Nordhavns prices, either new or used:
Both the builder and the owners know that there aren't many folks around who like a boat that takes forever to get nowhere, but most of those who do are willing to pay whatever it takes...

It’s a pity you can’t somehow borrow a prospective boat for a week end or something to try it .To see if it hits or ticks boxes .
Short of formal charter or a quick dealer run around a bay .
You know considering the sums involved etc .
Better still arrange a short list and do a back to back to arrive the best fit for purpose.

You can with cars , dealers lend them or give you an upgrade when yours is in for work .
Nearest thing in boat world that I have experienced is the Ferretti Monaco preview , it’s a free for all have a go week end , albeit a 20 min run out in the bay but at least it’s a run out and you can helm and mess about with the throttles and run the thing at any wave angle to get the feel of it .
Yo can check out the number of steps or size of freezer another time easily or on line .

 

[MapisM]

As I said listening to the N57 folks ( admittedly my only N owners contact ) and thinking Med use and what W said about a Baia 63 Azurri crossing to a big island in the Med , it does make you wonder which ones got it right ?

'Fiuaskme, it's blatantly obvious that a N'havn doesn't make sense in the Med, unless you rate cruising comfort above anything else.

Trouble is, the real answer to your question is neither.
I mean, if anyone onboard doesn't like cruising at all, even assuming that for them it is better to "suffer" for 2 hours rather than 10, they should still address the elephant in the room, first and foremost: why not forget boating altogether?
It's called pleasure boating for a reason, and there's no point insisting with it for those who don't get any pleasure, regardless of speed/time.

 

[petem]

'Fiuaskme, it's blatantly obvious that a N'havn doesn't make sense in the Med, unless you rate cruising comfort above anything else.

Trouble is, the real answer to your question is neither.
I mean, if anyone onboard doesn't like cruising at all, even assuming that for them it is better to "suffer" for 2 hours rather than 10, they should still address the elephant in the room, first and foremost: why not forget boating altogether?
It's called pleasure boating for a reason, and there's no point insisting with it for those who don't get any pleasure, regardless of speed/time.

I agree, Nordies and the like don't really work in the Med where you need lots of sunbathing / open cockpit space.

Talking of boat values, I was talking to a customer the other day who was looking for a T34 but was finding that T43's (complete with A/C, Genset and Pasarelle) were pretty much the same price. Figure that one out!

And talking of wives, mine recently proclaimed that she'd rather have a bigger boat than an apartment. She prefers Sportscruisers too. :encouragement:

 

[MapisM]

It’s a pity you can’t somehow borrow a prospective boat for a week end or something to try it .To see if it hits or ticks boxes .
Short of formal charter or a quick dealer run around a bay .

Well, chartering a similar boat is a good way to get the feeling of the whole cruising/liveaboard experience, I reckon.
Otoh, it doesn't take much more than 10 minutes of cruising to get the gist of the difference between D and P boats.
It really is a night and day difference.

 

[MapisM]

She prefers Sportscruisers too.

Why not show her a DP48/50 and hear her impressions?
You could always stick a FL badge on her and pretend she's a one-off prototype, straight from Oundle....

 

[Bouba]

I mean, if anyone onboard doesn't like cruising at all, even assuming that for them it is better to "suffer" for 2 hours rather than 10, they should still address the elephant in the room, first and foremost: why not forget boating altogether?
It's called pleasure boating for a reason, and there's no point insisting with it for those who don't get any pleasure, regardless of speed/time.

no more of this talk Mapis, you never know who’s listening . Spouses can be cajoled, moulded and eventually persuaded that this is the life for them:encouragement: it just takes time. Thirty years should do it:nonchalance:

 

[petem]

Why not show her a DP48/50 and hear her impressions?
You could always stick a FL badge on her and pretend she's a one-off prototype, straight from Oundle....

I'd certainly love to have a look around one.

In my mind a 43 would be as large as I'd like to go however I'm not sure that something like a Pershing 43 would have much more interior space than my current boat.

Anyhow, It's not something that's of immediate concern.

Pete

 

[MapisM]

I'd certainly love to have a look around one

You might suggest Mrs. petem a romantic weekend in Venice, and by sheer coincidence rolleyes the opportunity to see both a 48 and a 50 could pop up while you are there! In fact, IIRC Mr.DP has now one of each for sale near Venice.

 

[petem]

You might suggest Mrs. petem a romantic weekend in Venice, and by sheer coincidence rolleyes the opportunity to see both a 48 and a 50 could pop up while you are there! In fact, IIRC Mr.DP has now one of each for sale near Venice.

One day!

One thing is for certain, a Targa 44 would be OMDB*!




* Things I don't want on my next boat - outdrives, IPS drives or superchargers.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

In my mind a 43 would be as large as I'd like to go however I'm not sure that something like a Pershing 43 would have much more interior space than my current boat.
Pete

A Pershing 43 has more space then your current boat and T43. Only galley is more spacious is the T43 and not by much. The space in the P43 is used more to the beam. Great boat especially with Man 630s.
I sold have a dozens of these and love them to bits.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Otoh, when I said that they shouldn't have gone the IPS route, I was replying to Deleted User who envisaged that Abs could compete with Fleming and the likes (because he's a "Fleming boater" at heart! ) just by adding more tankage.
Only in this sense, I added that there's no place for toys like IPS on a serious passagemaker.
And even if I know nothing of Abs Navettas, I can easily guess that they are pretty far from Flemings and the likes in several other ways...

I take slight issue with that. I think IPS has been around long enough to be viewed as proven technology and whilst, on balance, I'd prefer shafts, the IPS drives would not stop me buying a Navetta if I was in that area of the market but the poor tank capacities would. Whatever type of cruising you do, having to refill with fuel and water is a PITA. I do think that Absolute have dropped a bollock on this. If you compare the fuel/water tank capacities of the Navetta 68 (3500/910 litres) against direct competitors like the Magellano 66 (4500/1000 litres) or the Sirena 64 (5000/1400 litres), clearly the Absolute is at a disadvantage. All 3 boats are roughly the same displacement at around 45t and nobody is going to convince me that the Navetta 68 uses less fuel than the others so its range will be considerably less than the others. The frustrating thing is that I guess Absolute could fix this fairly easily

As for myself, yes probably I'm a Fleming boater at heart but I would certainly consider the Magellano and Sirena as well, especially since for sure the SWMBO would prefer those for the style and space

 

[petem]

A Pershing 43 has more space then your current boat and T43. Only galley is more spacious is the T43 and not by much. The space in the P43 is used more to the beam. Great boat especially with Man 630s.
I sold have a dozens of these and love them to bits.

Thanks W, it's nice to have something to aspire to!

Tell me, did they ever make the Pershing 43 with a Silver hull?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

'Fiuaskme, it's blatantly obvious that a N'havn doesn't make sense in the Med, unless you rate cruising comfort above anything else.
.

Again I take issue with that. Firstly I've seen quite a few Nordhavns in the Med, particularly in Croatia. I think if you want a cruising boat for the Med but with a high degree of self sufficiency (ie the ability to spend many weeks on the hook) and you dont mind displacement speeds, then why wouldnt you look at the Nordhavn? You seem to be condemning them because of their high used prices compared to planing boats. Firstly thats good for owners because they're looking at less depreciation than a similar price planing boat and secondly it shows there is a demand for secondhand Nordhavns which is reassuring. As for sunbathing areas most Nordhavns have large boat deck areas which would take as many sunloungers as you want

 

[vas]

guys I can see the diesel tank argument (well just) but I cannot see the water one!
I upgraded my watermaker (from a barely livable 30lph to a 105-110lph) and I'm now extremely happy I don't have to visit a port to refill, two weeks in July-Aug with just two port visits and 7 onboard was just fine. Every day or two, i'd fire the gen and watermaker on a passage from one anchorage to the next one and restore level around the mid mark. Due to the extra weight of the jet rib I've decided that I can economize weight by running water tanks almost empty to half full (and I only have 500lt of water but aft...)
Anyway most of the boats you're talking about have one installed, if not you should seriously consider one!

otoh, nordies open air living spaces are obviously not a design priority, was checking the 56MS (I know most ppl hate them!) and its outrageously small aft deck, not to mention you cannot pass a lazy line to the bows (btw how do you do that for med mooring??)

V.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Anyway most of the boats you're talking about have one installed, if not you should seriously consider one!

I have a watermaker on my boat. I cant use in harbour because it has to be fed with clean water and at 100lph, it takes about 10hrs to fill my tank anyway so, at anchor I have to put up with the noise of the generator and the watermaker for that period. Far better to start with a bigger tank in the first place

otoh, nordies open air living spaces are obviously not a design priority, was checking the 56MS (I know most ppl hate them!) and its outrageously small aft deck, not to mention you cannot pass a lazy line to the bows (btw how do you do that for med mooring??)

The 56MS is a motorsailer and cannot be compared to a motorboat, only to sailing yachts, all of which suffer from lack of deck space

 

[Portofino]

We are back to buying a boat to match intended use .
If that usage pattern changes then perhaps the boat should be changed to suit .
I wouldn’t say no a Nordy if it’s was gonna be used for long self contained trips to less crowded areas in the Med and had sufficient crew capability to run day and preferably mostly night passages .
But then again you can get some real nice sail boats from 60 ft up they become comfortable from a deck plan POV .

But coming from Baltic sail boat for a guy , the Swed , I can’t see him even considering a twin V12 24 L Arnesons powered Baia over a 4 or 6 pot Luger doing 6.4 knots in a semi yacht interior and feel that a Nordavn initially feels .
So I can see how he ended up where he is .

As for PeteM I can see where and why he’s thinking what he’s thinking ( P43 ) and identify with the “nothing with outdrives, IPS or superchargers “.
We looked at a P43 as it fitted the berth * The gloss wood interior although in good order was on the not next time list of Mrs Porto .....back then .
The HT attracted me along with the MAN engines .Its got split accommodation, aft cabin suite so that tells me the engines are where they should be in the middle not at the back :encouragement:.
Btw having split accommodation in a 14/15 M boat works well with guests as it feels we each have our own private spaces .

Aft cabin residents need to be nimble enough to negotiate a steep ladder .That too can be worked to your advantage in the sense it self selects who accepts invitations to stay on board .

Also Pete I wanted a boat with fixed furniture, ie no convertible tables or swinging back rests etc .A huge sun pad , a huge bathing platform.A fixed ( not cassette ) paserelle . A cockpit table where all seated occupants have enough room . None vac toilets , remote holding tank - no messing with Y valves and lifting cabin sole access panels .
All those ( except the gloss wood ) the P 43 has .

So it nearly made it

14 M is a nice size berth availability wise when on a trip .

A nice boat to move into after the outdrive sports cruisers experience.

 

[Portofino]

I have a watermaker on my boat. I cant use in harbour because it has to be fed with clean water and at 100lph, it takes about 10hrs to fill my tank anyway so, at anchor I have to put up with the noise of the generator and the watermaker for that period. Far better to start with a bigger tank in the first place

That’s because there’s a miss match in the WM ,s capacity and your av cruising time ( be it D or P ) .
Vas can replenish 250 L to 1/2 top up his in the time 3 hrs at D to move about each day or so .

You need a WM that can make 500 L , 1/2 your capacity in the time it takes to get from PV to the Lerins or Villefranch
A bloody big one .