A worthy invention?

[SvenH]

apologise for the mystique but I may have to patent this if there’s any interest – feel free to ask questions im interested to hear your thoughts.

Unfortunately, your idea of patenting the 'invention' is almost certainly sunk (apologies) as the 'device' is now in the public domain. I reckon that a patent application could be compromised if you were to proceed.

No. The idea is but the solution is not.

Unless there is only one way this thing can be made, as long as technical details on how to make it are not publised, it is not in the public domain.

OP, you may be on to something but for me I have only had two problems with water in the boat, one because of poorly constructed through deck fittings for the stays and once when I had painted the boat whilst on the hard, stuck the windows back in without screws to screw in place after the paint had dried.
It then started raining for three days.

I think that rain should be kept out, not pumped out.

 

[neale]

I know nothing of the process in patenting something, maybe it is horrendously expensive, but why don't you just do it. Then the product can be divulged in full and you may find an appreciative market. If, on the other hand, it really doesn't solve a problem better or cheaper that the current offerings you will soon find out through a lack of orders.

 

[prv]

I know nothing of the process in patenting something, maybe it is horrendously expensive

I think it is fairly expensive, yes. The company I work for will patent any good ideas I come up with, but they employ a staff of lawyers to do the paperwork and then retain external law firms to do the actual filing (no idea why the split). I think doing it yourself is likely to prove expensive - plus just having the patent is not much good, you need to be prepared to fight the court cases (usually against big companies) to protect it.

Personally, if I had a niche sailing product I thought I could sell, I'd just get on and do it and hope that the niche remains uninteresting to Plastimo, Lewmar, et al. There are plenty of one-man-band products in sailing proving that this can work. Even if the big boys do copy you, they can't get a defensible patent to freeze you out because your existing sales are clear prior art.

Pete

 

[jamie N]

To bring a good idea to the marketplace doesn't need a patent of course. It's by no means certain that any potential competitor will copy your creation. If you're in the situation where the device is SO successful, then you've created a situation where competition will attempt encroach on your market. To get a 'cast iron patent' that is above and beyond contest could be extremely expensive as 'Apple V Samsung' have shown.
Actually, as this is a forum where one must register to post, then it isn't perhaps in the public domain, so why don't you tell us here what it is?
Scouts honour: I'm CERTAIN that no-one here would blabber about it outwith the forum

 

[Tranona]

I know nothing of the process in patenting something, maybe it is horrendously expensive, but why don't you just do it. Then the product can be divulged in full and you may find an appreciative market. If, on the other hand, it really doesn't solve a problem better or cheaper that the current offerings you will soon find out through a lack of orders.

That's the problem with new ideas. Protecting with a patent is expensive and long winded but you don't know if there is a market until you try selling it. There are thousands of patented processes or products that have never made it successfully to market.

The issue with the OPs idea is whether there is a need, not whether his "solution" is unique. First establish the need then look for a solution. Only rarely do solutions come first.

 

[prv]

There are thousands of patented processes or products that have never made it successfully to market.

Indeed

http://totallyabsurd.com/toiletsnorkel.htm

Pete

 

[stu22uk]

That's the problem with new ideas. Protecting with a patent is expensive and long winded but you don't know if there is a market until you try selling it. There are thousands of patented processes or products that have never made it successfully to market.

The issue with the OPs idea is whether there is a need, not whether his "solution" is unique. First establish the need then look for a solution. Only rarely do solutions come first.

Agreed! And what better place to find out if there is a need but among a community of prideful owners and enthusiasts.

With regard to patents - I think the "protection" offered only serves as a deterrent to ward off unscrupulous hooligans and opportunists. If the big boys want it they will take it regardless of any patent. A good analogy may be the padlock on your garage door - your only keeping the honest man out!

Now, I hear many people saying that (rain) water shouldn't be in your boat in the first place. Don't let it in, then you don't have to pump it out. And thats all good practice - BUT;

In practice it takes considerable vigilance and dedication to achieve this, especially with older boats - can you honestly say your going to track down and repair all negligible leaks?(at this point I am referring to the super structure and deck fittings etc - Im not for a second suggesting its fine to have below waterline leaks into the bilge - prop shaft glands not included.)

For those who are so truly motivated to eradicate even the most minuscule of leaks - How can you be sure that a leak wont form over the winter lay up without you knowing about it? Water gets in between things and freezes, expanding and pushing things apart, breaking seals etc. Walls fall down because of the self same problem!

I think many people will accept that although not desirable and despite best efforts, water inside boats is difficult to overcome. It would be foolhardy to think that because you've had a dry bilge for six months that it will never be wet again - and that's why most folk employ contingency measures to manage the ever impending risk.

 

[prv]

I think many people will accept that although not desirable and despite best efforts, water inside boats is difficult to overcome. It would be foolhardy to think that because you've had a dry bilge for six months that it will never be wet again - and that's why most folk employ contingency measures to manage the ever impending risk.

That's fair comment, but I don't believe that a rain-powered-emptying-device-that-is-not-a-pump is practical, or a sensible solution to that potential problem, and you've done precisely nothing to convince me otherwise. I'm still curious to know what it is, so that I can either have fun pointing out the flaws, or perhaps reluctantly admit that it might be a good idea

Pete

 

[Tranona]

Having owned a potentially leaky wooden boat for over 30 years, I am well aware of the difficulties of keeping water out - but a cover does the job and is a good long term investment as it also protects the brightwork.

Think you will find that owners who value their boats will have found solutions that, like mine, stop the water from getting into the boat in the first place.

Ask yourself the questions.

Is it a theoretical problem?
Does it happen in practice?
Are the existing solutions unsatisfactory?

And finally

Are there enough people who have the problem and have failed to solve it - but might be willing to buy your solution?

Suspect when you get to the last bit you will realise it is not the problem you think it is.

 

[stu22uk]

That's fair comment, but I don't believe that a rain-powered-emptying-device-that-is-not-a-pump is practical, or a sensible solution to that potential problem, and you've done precisely nothing to convince me otherwise. I'm still curious to know what it is, so that I can either have fun pointing out the flaws, or perhaps reluctantly admit that it might be a good idea

Pete

Ahh yes Pete, you curiosity has been noticed!

Suffice to say, some people dont like the boat of convention to be rocked!

How about this - I draw up a confidentiality agreement, build you a device and send it to you for you to test.
The proviso being that you pay half for the cost of parts and when all is said and done you give an honest critique of its performance.

Does the curiosity remain?

 

[Rossynant]

The British disease is alive and thriving on this forum. Scoff, laugh & general negativity are just some of the many symptoms. No wonder we don't make anything in this country.

I like that
So as not being British - a small point:
Once there was a boat that stood abandoned for 4 years in a yard, after which yard took her over; so they went into, found her dry and sweet, started the engine OK. Boat had wind gen that kept batteries topped, and electric pump.
Nice solution that actually proven itself, should anyone need some. No additional gear necessary.

Another thing - never heard of battery freezing Yes, starting car in -40 C with low battery I often had problems, but it was certainly not frozen

Traditionally boats used plugs. At least around here, as in winter water would freeze in bilges for sure, damaging boats. Mine has not, probably cause she's british - so lowest seacock is taken off now for winter.

 

[prv]

How about this - I draw up a confidentiality agreement, build you a device and send it to you for you to test.
The proviso being that you pay half for the cost of parts and when all is said and done you give an honest critique of its performance.

Does the curiosity remain?

I don't have a problem with a confidentiality agreement, but I don't have a leaky boat . So there's not a whole lot of point in sending me one, and I definitely don't want to pay anything for a device that is no use to me and which I am sceptical of to begin with. Sorry

Pete