a thought on AIS

[oldvarnish]

Any Idea why?

I guess because in the past there have been incidents where, for example, the ship you think you are calling is not the one that answers.

Less likely, of course, if you have a ship's name. But I remember it used to be quite common to hear calls such as `"....black tanker on my port bow, this is the red tanker on your starboard side.' Given the range of such a VHF call could be 30+ miles, in busy waters it's easy to see how confusion could arise.

 

[GHA]

Any Idea why?

https://mcanet.mcga.gov.uk/public/c4/solasv/m_notice/mgn/mgn324.pdf

Page 3

 

[rogerthebodger]

I guess because in the past there have been incidents where, for example, the ship you think you are calling is not the one that answers.

Less likely, of course, if you have a ship's name. But I remember it used to be quite common to hear calls such as `"....black tanker on my port bow, this is the red tanker on your starboard side.' Given the range of such a VHF call could be 30+ miles, in busy waters it's easy to see how confusion could arise.

Oh I agree with that and this is the exact reason I fitted an DSC radio connected to my AIS so all I had to do was to pick the MMSI number of the vessel I wished to call and make to call. No mistake's

 

[rogerthebodger]

https://mcanet.mcga.gov.uk/public/c4/solasv/m_notice/mgn/mgn324.pdf

Page 3

Thks for that and I agree with page 3. Now page 4 talks about AIS but has missed the point that AIS can give you the vessels name and the unique MMSI. Also combining this with DSC a call direct to the vessel in question can be made without any confusion and with an alarm signaling the call sounding on the bridge or radio room.

I had a case one time trying to raise a vessel without this info and a very sleepy OOW came back not knowing what the situation was .

 

[oldvarnish]

https://mcanet.mcga.gov.uk/public/c4/solasv/m_notice/mgn/mgn324.pdf

Page 3

Appendix IV w2(a) puts AIS in its place

a.) Collision avoidance must be carried out in strict compliance with the COLREGs. There is no provision in the COLREGs for use of AIS information therefore decisions should be taken based primarily on visual and / or radar information.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Appendix IV w2(a) puts AIS in its place

a.) Collision avoidance must be carried out in strict compliance with the COLREGs. There is no provision in the COLREGs for use of AIS information therefore decisions should be taken based primarily on visual and / or radar information.

I totally agree with that but not all small vessels have radar and I don't think it is compulsory anywhere.

 

[prv]

The mca aren't keen on that for collision avoidance either...

And any day in the Channel with a VHF on ch16 and ch06 will tell you what the mariners of the world think of their opinion

Pete

 

[maby]

I'm always puzzled by the hostility towards technology of some sailors. AIS is certainly not foolproof, but neither is it compulsory. It is reasonably cheap to own these days and unless you never enter busy waters like the Channel and Solent in poor visibility, it is reassuring to have - provided you never forget that it is just one more useful tool and not an absolute guarantee of safety. We sailed out into the Solent at the end of Cowes week to watch the fireworks and were pottering around in the pitch black - I was very happy to have the AIS turned on and it did spot several other boats before I had seen them.

 

[oldvarnish]

it is reassuring to have - provided you never forget that it is just one more useful tool and not an absolute guarantee of safety.

Exactly!!!
But reading some posts (in previous threads) there is a sense that some people think that having AIS is as good as wearing armour, and it isn't.

 

[oldvarnish]

And any day in the Channel with a VHF on ch16 and ch06 will tell you what the mariners of the world think of their opinion

Pete

I'd be interested to know if anyone can come up with a (collision) situation where the rules don't help but a VHF call would.

 

[doug748]

I had not considered the possibility of someone trying to contact me by DSC VHF.
I'm not keen. May keep hold of the old Seavoice

 

[maby]

I had not considered the possibility of someone trying to contact me by DSC VHF.
I'm not keen. May keep hold of the old Seavoice

Are you not keen on being contacted by DSC, or on being contacted at all? If the former, then why? While I agree that the implementation of DSC in most current radios is clunky, I love the principle of DSC and use it whenever I know the MMSI of the boat I want to talk to.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Are you not keen on being contacted by DSC, or on being contacted at all? If the former, then why? While I agree that the implementation of DSC in most current radios is clunky, I love the principle of DSC and use it whenever I know the MMSI of the boat I want to talk to.

This is one of my main points that with AIS you can get the MMSI number of a boat near by and with the AIS receive incorporated into the radio or connected to it, you don't have to re-enter the MMSI reducing the possibility of making a mistake.

I think that an AIS transmitter on the surface "tells boats around your details" it must not be relied on in the hope that the receiving vessel will take action to miss you. You must be proactive. This is why on small pleasure vessels AIS transceivers are a dubious benefit.

 

[GHA]

I'd be interested to know if anyone can come up with a (collision) situation where the rules don't help but a VHF call would.

I find the channel to be largely silent with inter ship Vhf manoeuvring chat. The Thames is different though, but the most common seems to be when departing from the rules for whatever reason - "blue ship this is red ship, are you happy if we go green to green?."

So no answer for your question.. The rules cover it all.

 

[rogerthebodger]

I find the channel to be largely silent with inter ship Vhf manoeuvring chat. The Thames is different though, but the most common seems to be when departing from the rules for whatever reason - "blue ship this is red ship, are you happy if we go green to green?."

So no answer for your question.. The rules cover it all.

Yes the rules do cover it all but it when one party don't keep to the rules when they are obliged to do so is when I wish to contact the ship directly.

 

[prv]

I find the channel to be largely silent with inter ship Vhf manoeuvring chat.

Really? Maybe I just have an unusually good aerial, but on most crossings I'll hear quite a few Indian or Ukrainian voices asking each others' intentions, confirming that CPAs are acceptable, asking if the other is able to make a little more room because the caller is avoiding a fishing boat, and so on. Not generally deviating from the rules, just making sure that everyone is content with what's happening if it's at all unusual.

The Thames is different though, but the most common seems to be when departing from the rules for whatever reason - "blue ship this is red ship, are you happy if we go green to green?."

Similar on the VTS channel in the Solent and Southampton Water - lots of "green-to-green", "you go ahead, I'll wait till you've passed", "keep coming, I'm going east of the greens [outside the channel]", etc.

Pete

 

[GHA]

Really? Maybe I just have an unusually good aerial, but on most crossings I'll hear quite a few Indian or Ukrainian voices asking each others' intentions, confirming that CPAs are acceptable, asking if the other is able to make a little more room because the caller is avoiding a fishing boat, and so on.

Possibly unreliable human memory on my part as well, but I don't recall that type of Vhf traffic as being common on crossings. Maybe i just didn't pay any attention to them

 

[prv]

Maybe i just didn't pay any attention to them

They make a quick call on 16 and move to 6, so if you're not nosy like me you wouldn't hear the actual conversations

The Thames is presumably all on one channel, like Southampton, so you hear it all.

Pete

 

[GHA]

Yes the rules do cover it all but it when one party don't keep to the rules when they are obliged to do so is when I wish to contact the ship directly.

In general I'd rather be no where near them if they don't behave so 2b, if you're stand on and they are looking dodgy then don't stand on no need for Vhf, imho of course, and not every time either.