A tale of two cleats!

auditdata

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I am hoping to replace the aluminium cleats with stainless steel to match the rest of the deck fittings. I am struggling to find suitable ones. Enclosed photo comparison showing that the stainless steel of similar size is significantly less substantial. I can't seem to find beefier stainless steel ones. Anyone have an idea where I might find them as so far internet searches have drawn a blank.
Picture here
https://picasaweb.google.com/clive.sparkes/WhichHose#5580654586469762002

Thanks
Clive
 

machurley22

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Can't really form a good idea of the relative strengths of the two cleats from a plan view i.e. without seeing the thickness of metal but of course stainless steel is significantly stronger than aluminium size for size. It's quite possible for the SS to look less chunky than the aluminium and actually be stronger.
 
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Bajansailor

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Stainless steel is pretty much three times 'stronger' than aluminium (based on a comparison of their respective Modulus) hence the S/S cleat shown is probably 'stronger' than the ally one.
Do the two cleats have the same diameter bolt holes?
A more important criteria might be if the horns of the S/S cleat are long enough to get a few wraps of your mooring / anchor rope around.
 

billcowan

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Cleat needs to be amply big enough to get two of your thickest warps onto.

Or if in the Med, big enough to get a marina pick up line onto, ie. huge.

The strength of the cleat is more or less irrelevant,

It is held on with at most 4 piddly screws into wafer thin GRP, with if you fitted it yourself, a small rectangle of plywood and slightly larger than normal washers under the nuts.

Needless to say that every single 'cleat failure' I have ever seen, and I've seen a few, involved the cleat ripping straight out of the deck. I suspect that if you made the fixing really strong by boring out the holes for bigger bolts and using a massive thick metal backing plate, all that would happen is either the rope would break first or you would just rip off a bigger bit of deck.

I havn't seen even a plastic (yuck) cleat actually break.
 

alan_d

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RUSTICUS EXPECTAT DUM DEFCUAT AMNIS
Your quote from Horace has a typo. It should be:
Viuendi qui recte prorogat horam,
rusticus expectat dum defluat amnis; at ille
labitur et labetur in omne uolubilis aeuum.

He who puts off the hour of living well is like a country bumpkin, waiting for the river to run dry; whereas it keeps flowing on and will for ever.
Don't know what that has to do with cleats,though.
 

craigsmith

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Stainless steel is pretty much three times 'stronger' than aluminium (based on a comparison of their respective Modulus) hence the S/S cleat shown is probably 'stronger' than the ally one.
That's not really quite right, it depends entirely on the grade of aluminium used in the cleats, and even weak low tempers are not a third of the typical 316 used for stainless. It is quite conceivable for a high quality aluminium part such as a cleat bottom to be in the same strength ballpark as 316. Without knowing the exact alloys used in both products the comparison is a bit silly.

In any case it's a completely moot point for the reasons billcowan mention - unless it's a metal boat and you're welding the cleats directly onto the decks with reinforcing plates, the weak point is the mount not the cleat itself.

The stainless cleats are smaller primarily to keep weight down, whereas the alu one can be more comfortable to use and put less stress on the lines for no weight penalty.
 

auditdata

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Thanks Guys,
So in summary. Stainless is probably stronger than the aluminium, the attachment to the deck is important and can it take the warps?
The latter I will check next weekend and from what I can remember the holes for the screws are slightly smaller on the stainless than the aluminium.
If the warps are OK I might go up to the next size stainless cleat to see if the holes are bigger. The originals were bolted through the deck which is about 30mm thick with large penny washers so pretty substantial attachment. I am slightly nervous on the comments re the "Kindness to the warps" as I can see why the more substantial aluminium would be better offering more surface area. If I could get a similar volume stainless cleat I would as I guess the weight disadvantage would be insignificant on a 10,000KG displacement!
I might be looking for the Holy Grail here!
Clive
 

auditdata

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Now thats a cleat!!!! :) Also has 4 fixing points and I think I saw this style somewhere else and it only had 2 so rejected it. Thanks Stork_III looks like that might do the trick! Will look it up.
Clive
 

Stork_III

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Now thats a cleat!!!! :) Also has 4 fixing points and I think I saw this style somewhere else and it only had 2 so rejected it. Thanks Stork_III looks like that might do the trick! Will look it up.
Clive
They can be got direct from HR Parts, but can be ordered through Transworld, HR UK agents. Sometime it is cheaper through them than direct.
 

Stork_III

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Wish I'd waited 5 mins to see your next post. Hey Ho. How much can it cost to ship!!!!! Might not be smiling in the morning :-(
Clive
Probably not too much extra. Transworld tend to order stuff an dit is sent on the next HR delivery trip so no shipping cost. Glad to have helped.
 

William_H

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Cleats

I second the comment about size. Go for the biggest that will fit or look reasonable. Big being height and length of horn that will suit oversized ropes or several ropes. Just last weekend on a friend's Beneteau went to pick up a buoy where the ropes were provided. The authorities must have anticipated a huge ship as the ropes about 35mm diameter were just too big to fit onto the mooring cleat correctly. Ended up lashing the rope down onto the cleat with lighter rope. good luck olewill
 

Modulation

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I am hoping to replace the aluminium cleats with stainless steel to match the rest of the deck fittings. I am struggling to find suitable ones. Enclosed photo comparison showing that the stainless steel of similar size is significantly less substantial. I can't seem to find beefier stainless steel ones. Anyone have an idea where I might find them as so far internet searches have drawn a blank.
Picture here
https://picasaweb.google.com/clive.sparkes/WhichHose#5580654586469762002

Thanks
Clive

You could try Seascrew in Sussex. They used to do quite a range of stainless stuff when I was refitting a few years back
 

William_H

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Mounting cleats

So last weekend we went to that infamous island again. A club outing. Boats were moored to a jetty bow first with 2 big posts to attach the stern. A friend's boat a Viking 30 was moored just down from us. The wind and waves came up over night blowing into the bay. The stern cleat on the windward side was torn out of the deck. This from a combination of wind and wave loads on the stern quarter line. The boat then proceeded to smash the bow onto the jetty with some damage. All while the owner slept ashore. Someone else heard it and attached more lines to the pushpit bases.
Anyway the point is you need really substantial backing and attachments for the cleats. They can take some huge jerking loads. olewill
 

nickd

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I have the same ally cleats on my boat
One was badly damaged by someone else's bow anchor. I could not get a matching replacement so descided to see I could polish out the scratches - it now looks better than any stainless - looks like I will have to do the rest.
 
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