A suitable motor boat ?

[boatmaster]

AL

I'm looking for my first motor boat. At present we have a 41ft ocean going grp yacht which we have sailed extensively. What we are now looking for is a boat to cruise the European river and canal network but with the ability to do coastal and cross channel work as well. Fast is not important, long term economical cruising is. I'm thinking of a well built Dutch displacement steel cruiser with 2 engines around 80 to 100 hp, 42ft long ish 20 to 30 yrs old. Would anybody with experience of this type of boat and cruising be able to give me some pointers as to whether my thinking is going in the right direction as I've never been to sea on a boat like this. Some of my concerns are how they handle (safe) in a sea, the longevity of an older steel boat and engines, condensation if staying on board in the winter. Any knowledgeable experience appreciated.

Hi
I reckon, a Broom is your answer, there are various models available on the S/H market from around 45k upwards depending on your budget, if i were personally looking i'd go for the monarch but anything from the ocean 37 or continental era which is also 37ft what probably fit the bill, Dutch steel cruisers are ok but many were built for intercostal usage and subsequently had greater distances between frames - giving the starved dog look after prolonged heavy weather! however be careful on older brooms as the perkins 6.354 horizontal engines which were fitted are now prone to cooling problems owing to the underside of the engine sludging, (dangerous to generilse, if serviced properly the are still very good) if in doubt get a mirror on the underside and look for a drain valve to stbd side of bell housing, crack it and if it runs your ok, if not there could be problems!

 

[pheran]

Hi
.....however be careful on older brooms as the perkins 6.354 horizontal engines which were fitted are now prone to cooling problems owing to the underside of the engine sludging, (dangerous to generilse, if serviced properly the are still very good) .....

And some parts, especially castings, are getting very difficult to get hold of. A very limited number are being re-manufactured by specialist companies but I understand waiting lists have existed, at least in the past, so it may not be possible to satisfy urgent requirements.

 

[whisper]

Erm. What's a flooper stopper?

If a boat had 3/4 length box section twin keels would it make it less rolly?

Flopper Stopper :- Minimises rolling in beam seas - suspended outboard on both sides of boat, normally off booms. Work rather like a sea anchor but in the vertical plane.

As one side of the boat rises then the stopper on that side resists the upward movement. The stopper on the other side "collapses" and vice versa.

Sorry, that doesn't seem very clear - "it's me age".

 

[AndieMac]

Flopper Stopper :- Minimises rolling in beam seas - suspended outboard on both sides of boat, normally off booms. Work rather like a sea anchor but in the vertical plane.

As one side of the boat rises then the stopper on that side resists the upward movement. The stopper on the other side "collapses" and vice versa.

Sorry, that doesn't seem very clear - "it's me age".

I thought paravanes (birds) with a lead bulb in the nose to direct them down, were used while the boat is running at sea, and flopper stoppers, hung off the same mid-ship booms, were used at anchor?

 

[whisper]

Yes, I think you are right.

 

[Cloggy]

Flopper Stoppers

Hi
I reckon, a Broom is your answer, there are various models available on the S/H market from around 45k upwards depending on your budget, if i were personally looking i'd go for the monarch but anything from the ocean 37 or continental era which is also 37ft what probably fit the bill, Dutch steel cruisers are ok but many were built for intercostal usage and subsequently had greater distances between frames - giving the starved dog look after prolonged heavy weather!

Flopper stopper is also used as a slang term for Stabilisers.
Many Dutch boats have very good systems fitted to stop/reduce roll. A Naiad system for example will reduce roll by up to 90% they claim and in my experience they do work. Other systems can also be effective but IMHO perhaps not as good as Naiads are.
There are some very good displacment hulls out ghere with proteceted prop shafts which mean they will take the mud if needs be. This nopens up many more harbours and cruising grounds than a deep V hull form. The Scilly Isles or the smaller Channel Island harbours for example. There are also round hulls with bilge keels and of course planing hulls as well but gese will tend to be built in Aluminium rather than steel for obvious reasons!

Most Dutch hulls from the larger builders are all meant to be used at sea and are will be certified to RCD Cat A or B at the least. There are some inland only hulls and these will be Cat C or lower but to generalise that the distance between their frames can give them a starved dog look.......................lets hope there are no Dutch builders looking at this site!
They do have a bit of a reputation for building some of the worlds finest superyachts after all.

From my experience Broom hulls can be VERY wet and uncomfortable at sea, as most are designed for inland and coastal use only. Try an Atlantic hull, again only in my opinion, a far superior product in all respects - as evidenced by their resale values in brokerage listings.

As in all things, there are horses for courses - you pay your money and take your choice.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

From my experience Broom hulls can be VERY wet and uncomfortable at sea, as most are designed for inland and coastal use only. Try an Atlantic hull, again only in my opinion, a far superior product in all respects - as evidenced by their resale values in brokerage listings.

.

Whooaa! I can't let that statement pass without making a comment. Whilst Broom hulls from several decades ago might be wet and uncomfortable in a seaway, some of the hulls they have produced in the last 20 yrs are excellent sea boats. Their latest 38cl was acknowledged as one of the best sea boats in it's class. I have owned a 1991 37 in the past and it was an excellent sea boat. In the last 20 years they have produced both planing and semi displacement hulls which are equally at home at sea and on inland waterways.
As for Atlantics, most if not all of their hulls were designed by John Bennett who also happened to have designed many Broom hulls so, whilst I agree that Atlantics are nice boats, I can't agree that they are markedly superior to Brooms although they do have very glitzy interiors. As for resale, Brooms are known for their excellent resale value, perhaps more so than Atlantics

 

[Cloggy]

Mike,
No intention to offend here, or before, just provoke a little discussion perhaps?

Agreed John Bennett did design the Atlantic's and many Broom hulls also hence the similarity externally.
But, again IMHO the only Broom hull that comes close to matching the Atlantic at sea is their 415, as it is a planing hull. The 415 is a nice boat so are the older 37 models as long as they have the 306 hp engines for good performance at sea.

Brooms are good boats,after all they have been around for over 100 years, its just that Atlantic is a better boat in many ways.
Its not all about pontoon appeal as 60% of any boat is invisible to the eye.
Its what goes on under the gloss that matters as well.

The man himself has been heard to say the Atlantic 42 is the best boat he ever designed.

 

[blueglass]

we have the John Bennet s/d atlantic Hull in our Haines Atlantic 38 and use it predominantly at sea where she performs superbly. It is a wet boat in a head sea however - there's no getting away from that - perhaps a fact of life with s/d. Aquastar 38s I have been on also plough through heavy head seas - sometimes feels like you are in a submarine.

 

[Cloggy]

we have the John Bennet s/d atlantic Hull in our Haines Atlantic 38 and use it predominantly at sea where she performs superbly. It is a wet boat in a head sea however - there's no getting away from that - perhaps a fact of life with s/d. Aquastar 38s I have been on also plough through heavy head seas - sometimes feels like you are in a submarine.

There are 3 hull types on the Atlantic 38's all John Bennett designed.
First was a full displacment hull with a keel protected single propeller version, normally found only in Holland on hire fleets and a few private owners. The second was a semi displacment hull (as the one sold to Haines and a few other builders who wanted a good strong and proven hull to start with) were a good sea boat but the third was a full planing version and is the one normally found in the UK.
I think that a couple of these have been finished to the interior standard of the Atlantic 42 and look fantastic internally as a result.

If only I could afford one...................

 

[castlevar]

flopper stoppers

Hi all
I have what i call flopper stoppers in the garage originally fitted to our 34ft trawler yacht they are hydro vanes really very good but when I built a steel boat 10 years ago.
We found it very stable and decided not to fit the fish its a dutch designed stentor 13 mtr
x 4.26 draft 1.5 weight 30 tonne not very fast 6.5 knots.
I would suggest you investigate dutch steel.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Mike,
No intention to offend here, or before, just provoke a little discussion perhaps?

Agreed John Bennett did design the Atlantic's and many Broom hulls also hence the similarity externally.
But, again IMHO the only Broom hull that comes close to matching the Atlantic at sea is their 415, as it is a planing hull. The 415 is a nice boat so are the older 37 models as long as they have the 306 hp engines for good performance at sea.

Brooms are good boats,after all they have been around for over 100 years, its just that Atlantic is a better boat in many ways.
Its not all about pontoon appeal as 60% of any boat is invisible to the eye.
Its what goes on under the gloss that matters as well.

The man himself has been heard to say the Atlantic 42 is the best boat he ever designed.

My 37 had 275hp Sabres and whilst it wasn't the fastest thing on the water, it was plenty fast enough (25 kts) for good sea performance. The 37 became the 39 which became the 415 so there's a bloodline there. Sorry I cannot agree with you about Atlantics v Brooms. Atlantics were or maybe still are moulded by a one horse company in a shed in Oundle. Are you saying their production quality is better than Broom who've been moulding grp boats for 40yrs?
Yes I know the A42 hull was a good hull. The same hull was used in the Humber 42 and early Pearls and has an excellent reputation

 

[Cloggy]

.. Atlantics were or maybe still are moulded by a one horse company in a shed in Oundle. Are you saying their production quality is better than Broom who've been moulding grp boats for 40yrs?
Yes I know the A42 hull was a good hull. The same hull was used in the Humber 42 and early Pearls and has an excellent reputation

Atlantic's were moulded by a company in Essex and some were then finished in Oundle by Sea Ranger which was staffed by many ex FAirline chaps. As I understand it they built boats called Sea Ranger as well as finishing some 38, most of the 42's and some of the 50 Atlantic's.
The rest were made in Holland but all hulls were moulded here in the UK.

The Atlantic hull was NOT the one used by Humber but you are correct about the Humber hull being used on early Pearls.
It was built for and owned by the owner of Atlantic in Holland and not used elsewhere.
Equally, the Humber is a very good hull.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Atlantic's were moulded by a company in Essex and some were then finished in Oundle by Sea Ranger which was staffed by many ex FAirline chaps. As I understand it they built boats called Sea Ranger as well as finishing some 38, most of the 42's and some of the 50 Atlantic's.
The rest were made in Holland but all hulls were moulded here in the UK.

The Atlantic hull was NOT the one used by Humber but you are correct about the Humber hull being used on early Pearls.
It was built for and owned by the owner of Atlantic in Holland and not used elsewhere.
Equally, the Humber is a very good hull.

The Oundle operation started off as Beaux Bateaux AFAIK and yes, it was started by ex Fairline chaps. In fact it's right next door to the Fairline factory in Oundle. Actually I was a bit hard on them. The Beaux Bateauxs were well fitted out from the beginning and they've always produced high quality joinery work which carried on into the Atlantics. I didn't know they didn't mould their own hulls. I guess the Essex moulders were Colvic who moulded a lot of boats for different manufacturers over the years. I still don't think that this provenance makes Atlantic boats better built than Brooms
I stand corrected on the Humber 42. Maybe it was the Humber 448 that used the A42 hull? I'm sure there was a connection somewhere. I'm also not sure that the A42 was exclusive to Atlantic as Sea Ranger is selling the 43AD these days and that is described as a Bennett hull

 

[Cloggy]

Mike,

Correct. It was Colvic that moulded the hulls for Atlantic.
Correct - they are right next door to Fairline in Oundle.
There was one Beaux Bateau built Atlantic badged as a 42 flybridge that was built using the Humber hull..................Just the one, nice enough boat but it really did not catch on!

The factory did start to build an Atlantic 42 look alike in recent years and it was based on the Humber hull which was extended a bit but this was before they halted production last year.

 

[adgilcan]

A very interesting thread, thank you all.

The question I'm asking is , in reality, even if a boat has a RCD category B rating, does that mean you are safe to go coastal cruising in good weather but, more importantly, would you be comfortable doing so?

I am looking to buy a Pedro Levanto 44. I would like to travel the European waterways in comfort but the potential to cruise the Amalfi coast, and the Greek islands is a great draw. My question is, is it a realistic ambition or should the two be separated by different boats? It's less of a certification issue and more a comfort and practicability one.

Thanks for your thoughts.