A second Prestige incident averted?

[Twister_Ken]

A single hull tanker with over 100,000 tons of oil aboard has been detained at Sullom Voe after a crack was reported in its deck. More at:

<A target="_blank" HREF=https://mcanet.mcga.gov.uk/public/news/release.asp?mcga_news_id=2065&month=2&year=2003>https://mcanet.mcga.gov.uk/public/news/release.asp?mcga_news_id=2065&month=2&year=2003</A>

 

[charles_reed]

A major difference - everyone played an involved and responsible part in handling this incident.

Unlike the "Prestige" where various national governments hid their heads under the blankets and told the problem to go away.

 

[Twister_Ken]

I guess they shouldn't be cracking open in the first place though?

 

[davidhand]

I was just reading a book about the "Great Eastern" launched in 1857. It seams the great engineer, Isimbard Kingdom Brunel, had the foresight to build with a double hull. It seems that only later when the bean counters got involved did it become standard to have a single hull. Perhaps a lot of marine disasters would have been averted (even the Titanic) if he had been around a bit longer.

 

[Guest]

Not uncommon .....

Actually the phenonemum is not that rare .... I have sailed on 3 ships that I can think of off-hand that had various cracks etc.

The problem actually increased with the advent of welded plate ships. The crack would just continue plate to plate .... being basically a continuous matel plate. With riveted plates any crack would normally stop at the plate junction ..... one of the reasons that older ships that were welded hulls had the top sheerstrake riveted ... then of course that practice died out in 50's .....
Later building practices have reduced scantlings on plating, making the ship cheaper to build relatively etc. The old practice of a few mm thicker than spec. died out many moons ago.
I agree that it is bad, shouldn't happen etc. ..... but certain cars after crash / evalutaion testing have failed during use with cracked chassis etc. - wheels falling off etc. etc.

So what to do ????? There's a case of the British Registered BUlk Carrier ..... sank with all hands some years ago - the relatives are still trying to get answers, depsite it being well known in Merch. circles that all sister vessels suffered cracked hulls etc. and its generally accepted she went down because of it...... she basically broke her back.

No dis-respect but shipping suffers the same as other modes of transport .... its just that its effects / damage to environment etc. and also media value is so great ........ but then again which is worst .... Ozone depletion due to aerosols .... or Prestige ??? Its not the machine that is doing the damage - its humans and their technology !!


Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[Ohdrat]

mmm it was on Scottish news last night... good only knows how long it would stand up to the bashing the N (and I mean serious N) Atlantic would have given it at this time of year with probably no possibility of salvage unlike the various oportunities that the Prestige prensented that were unfortunately not persued.

 

[Samphire]

Last week a 60,000 t tanker on passage from Denmark to Texas was involved in an incident off nw coast of Ireland.2 men dies when trying to secure liferaft on deck,swept by wave,third man lost a leg.Airlifted by Irish Coastguard Helicopter in force 10/11 to Galway Hospital,lucky to live.Vessel Panamanian,men Argentinian.
Vessel ordered to Donegal Bay by Irish authorities,detained when cracks found.It was a single hull and fuel is due to be trans shipped to another vessel this week.
Pity the Spaniards weren't as responsible

 

[Guest]

Prestige

Possibilities presented for Prestige ...... the weather at the time was not good -in fact very rough causing serious problems for all. One of the debates is whether it would have been possible to bring her closer in to quieter waters without increasing the risk for spanish coastline. No-one has a definitive answer .... I think they should have instead of pulling her into more heavier weather - but that is a personal opinion. I know the Prestige and her Sister ship well .... having seen her loading cargoes etc.

It is very difficult situation in salvage etc. what is best action..... given all the politics and govt. pressures etc. The situation was ovbiously not helped by the dogged refusal of our EU brothers south of us in refusing to allow alternative actions other than pushing her further out to sea.

But my main argument now is the centreing of attention on shipping after such incident ...... the world has not sudenly changed its ships, this problem has been going on for years - a ship I was on had a 2mtr crack vertically in the hulls side just above w/line ...... 70,000 Crude Oil ship. We were prevented from entering Japanese waters ... our destination .... by Jap Gunboats ! 6 Jap Marine inspectors boarded and wasted ours and their time in all the rubbish etc. they spouted / required. Finally our original suggestion to caulk and patch the crack with Epoxy / glass to stop the 'trickle' was agreed and we went over the side - me and the Chief Eng. The patch was hung by ropes down the side by a couple of seamen and we then glassed it into place. Waited a few hours till the Japs' accepted it stoped the leak and we sailed slowly into port to discharge. Now if it had been Spanish ..... ??????? We took of the cargo in good style, we then proceeded to repair yard where doubling plate and welding was made - ship back in service. OK we had more reasonable weather - but still illustrates what can be done .....


Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by nigel_luther on 08/02/2003 11:35 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Jeremy_W]

Re: Prestige

Apparently Smit (sp?) [who are apparently very good] had a tug on hand and had agreed that the Prestige could be towed into La Corunna but the Spaniards said NO!

 

[Ohdrat]

Re: Prestige

Agreed the weather / sea conditions were not ideal but I actually think as the Spannish govt in my opinion hindered salvage attempts there were missed opportunities (got the extra p in this time) to salvage the Prestige.

 

[Guest]

Re: Prestige

My own feelings on this are that she should have been towed into quieter waters right at the start ....... not dragged into more weather etc.

But that is personal opinion


Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[Guest]

Re: Prestige

I would be interested to know where that snippet comes from ... as I work in the Marine Industry, I have personal knowledge of the Prestige and sister ships ...... I have no info. that this info. is the case. The info I have is that Smits agreed to the towage offshore.

Now I will pass some insight ....... NOT Smits OK !! A large salvage co. that I had dealing with some time ago will not be used again on that companys ships ...... A ship ran aground and I was asked to board with salvage 'experts' to refloat the vessel. I was there to look after the cargo. So the salvage guys calculated 5000 tons to discharge to another ship and she would float ..... from the start I argued that 15000 tons should be discharged to the ship, as the tide was reduicing to neaps etc.
So 3 discharges later at 5000 tons per discharge she finally lifted ....... the cargo was reloaded back to the vessel and she sailed without further incident.

So please tell me who the expert is ...... I CERTAINLY AM NOT ... but I looked at it in practical terms, I believe that Co. looked at it financially .... as the daily rate for salvage co's can be huge !



Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[Mirelle]

Re: Prestige

So do I. But perhaps you missed the statement issued by the Managing Director of Smit, shortly after the loss, and published in "Lloyds List"? It seems Jeremy did catch it.

Ground reaction calculations are never that precise. It might have been an honest error - one (not Smit) salvage master whom I worked with in the 1970's was extremely prone to making this particular error - wanting to try tugs too early - and was repeatedly accused of doing unecessary damage, trying to jack up the day rates, etc.

I am absolutely sure that in his case he was more worried about the weather breaking - he was a very honest man. He had the unusual distinction of having been torpedoed and sunk twice by the British in WW2 - he favoured open bridges and since he was in ore carriers on the Narvik run you can perhaps see why!

Remember also that big tugs cost a lot every day but they don't earn big money every day. If they did, everyone would have them. Most salvage companies stagger along, barely breaking even. The Kursk cost US$ 60M to lift - and Smit lost money on the job. Svitzer Wijsmuller are now part of Maersk, so draw your own conclusions there.