A racer's conscience

Re: A racer\'s conscience

Probably the majority of us have raced at some level over the years,but dont choose to ram it down everyones throat on a forum that was set up to discuss cruising issues.

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Don't you think that there are things to learn from both sides of the fence? I wouldn't want the racers to get the idea that they weren't welcome here, I find a lot of what they have to say quite interesting, same as I do for us cruising sailormen.

What's the point of getting all hot under the collar?
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

When did I ever say that?!! I've never sneered at anyone for not having funky sails and never would. After all I've spent the best part of my sailing career sailing with some very tired dacron sails.
I do not regard racers as superior to cruisers or vice versa. They are two very different passtimes with the potential to learn a lot from each other, in both directions. I think I'm quite unusual in going from cruising to racing, most people seem to go the other way. As such I have NEVER shouted at a cruising boat whilst racing as I appreciate they may not understand what it is I'm trying to do.
I very rarely shout at other racing boats either. Very early in my racing career a very experienced sailor told me "a quiet boat is a fast boat". Shouting at another boat only serves to distract you from your own boat. If there is a problem a simple shout of "protest" with the flag is all that's required. The same is true of cruising boats, shouting at your foredeck crew while mooring up only serves to distract you from what you should be doing.

If you feel bad for shouting at a cruising boat, why not post an apology here, I'm sure someone will see them and pass it on!
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

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There is enough aggro in the world without slagging each other off,

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Have to agree with you there Garden Shed. I have a box full of dusty old cups in the attic that suggest I may have some idea how to go to windward and like most who like to sail it irks me to see yachts sailed badly ,genoa cars seized in one spot kicking straps with algae on etc etc at the end of the day I just accept that people can sail their boats however they like.

i know one cruising yachtsman who rarely uses a mainsail.He gets huge use and enjoyment out of his boat every season doing things his way on his boat.

each to his own.
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

Personally I try to keep clear of racers - if I can work out the course, otherwise I like s/brd tack !! Most decent racers keep clear of cruisers as the call for water takes them (me) a while to tack. The worst are the racers mentioned elsewhere that blame everyone else for there being at the back of the fleet.
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

Like many on the Forum, I enjoy both racing and cruising. I have had some success on the racing circuit and when racing, the last thing you needed was a cruiser who either knew he should keep clear, and didn't, or worse still, didn't even know he was suppossed to keep clear. Loads of unpleasant words have been known to come from my mouth in such circumstances!

On the other hand, when cruising, I will do all I can avoid a yacht that is racing, even when I am the stand on boat. An early big change of course is usually greeted with a cheery thanks from the racer who appreciated what you have done.

As others have said, cols regs rule. But a little consideration goes a long way. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

Sometimes you cant escape the racers ....

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This is a sailtraining boat that got trapped with nowhere to go in the middle of a fleet of Laser SB3's in the Garmin Hamble Winter Series.
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

As someone who cruises more than races - I agree with the view that the col regs rule - in many general situations RRS are the same anyway - port gives way - windward boat keeps clear etc . When I have to cross through a race fleet I always try to cross downwind of a boat to avoid causing a wind shadow etc. Racers should repect the col regs when interacting with non race boats but the reverse applies equally and a non racing vessel that ignores the col regs deserves a "wake up call" .
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

sometimes it happens....

I once was trundling back up the Orwell on a Sunday afternoon, and RHYC had their series running with a finish line right across the navigable channel... I was going downwind, and they had a large group of finishers approaching from the other direction, probably about 30 boats....

The tide was throwing me down, and despite me furling the genny, pinning the main and putting the engine gently into reverse, I was unable to entirely stay out of their way..... no room to round up, as there were dinghies by now, pretty much all around me, and they don't mix with several tons of AWB!

Fortunately, they could see that I was trying to help, so no contempt or abuse..... but it was interesting how few of them properly appreciated what I could and couldn't do.. with signalled requests for course changes coming at me from every direction!

In the end, I stayed out of the way of the National 12's the most, as they looked like they were having a ding dong battle to the line with some frantic tacking duels going on, and it was fun to watch!
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

I had an AWB vs dinghy incident in the narrow approach to Port Solent this summer at low water springs. I was motoring up taking a boat back to Sunsail after a regatta in a F4/5 when a handfull (right collective noun under the circumstances) of single trapeze RSs (I think) came towards us under assymetrics down the green side of the channel. As a helpful chap I made a clear turn to port, down close to the red piles to give them space. After I did so the leading dinghy turned continuously towards me until he had to bin it to avoid T-boning me. Judging by the torrent of abuse he was unaware that as a stand-on vessel he had a responsibility to maintain course and speed. Should dinghy racers be forced to pass a col regs exam ?
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

Ah - when the kite is up and they're on the trapeze they can be at the mercy of the wind ... not saying this one was ... but it does happen - sounds like he was in an RS700 (single handed trapeze with kite!) and that can be quite tricky to sail downwind - certainly not a straight line dinghy!!

Same about the torrent of abuse though - should've just shouted "Protest" at him ... and radioed into the race team with his sailno ... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

I'm sure he was just following the wind shifts - unfortunately I was rapidly becoming "restricted by draft" - as you say, shame about the abuse, especially after I said sorry to be polite, even though I had done my best not to impede him
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

Are you sure he was abusing you and not the wind?
If found myself nearly t-boning a (moored) cat a couple of weekends back ... luckily there was a lull to allow me to climb above it again ... at ~20knots that was quite fun! No point shouting abuse - no body was on board - just as well really - they'd've been having kittens with all the dinghies racing past!!
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

Ed
I think I know what you are trying to say and would basically agree. First off you have to start from a point and that is most yotties are the same - some only cruise and some only race but some both cruise and race and within all those groups you have your basic good guy and then you have your basic arrogant nutter.

BUT isn't that a cross section of any group?

These days I spend quite a bit of my "on water" time looking after racing sailors, from dinghies to racing cruisers - I've done it for years and in that time I've found the following to be true

In the bar either before or after a race you couldn't wish to meet a nicer group of people.

There's normally a huge cross-section of professions and trades.

Once the preparatory flag/signal sounds their brains drop into neutral.

During this time if you added up all their IQ's and multiplied by 10 you probably wouldn't reach double figures.

Racers "by enlarge" believe that they have right of way over everyone else including any commercial shipping.

Because they are used to passing other racing boats at very close quarters they can't see why that should up set any other boat that isn't racing.

Some "gentlemen" cruisers will never understand why other people want to race because they are convinced that any speed over 6 knots is positively dangerous - anyway man can't breath beyond that speed!!!

IMHO there are both cruisers, mobos and racers out there that should have their boats painted red/black/red because they are a danger to everyone.

Racers are prepared to take bigger risks than cruisers i.e. by going into much shallower water, passing v.close etc. I once had a racing boat pass within 30' of the bows of a commercial ship, whilst the racing helm could see no problem at all and in fact considered it to be 25' to much, the pilot had to be revived with smelling salts. I spoke to the helm afterwards in the bar and he genuinely couldn't see any problem and a more mild mannered man you couldn't wish to meet.

Conversely, I've had 20+ IRC class 1's on the line one minute from the go gun and up comes Captain "Old Salt" in his 50+ year old boat, Breton cap and defaced blue, flat out at 4 knots, heading straight for the middle of the line - I've whooshed over in the rib and asked him if he would mind altering his course only to be told that all those dam racers are on MY port-side and they should/have to give way.

From the above you would think that I'm anti racers but I'm not - What saddens me is that all us boaty types need to get on together and show a little respect for our fellow "water" users - it shouldn't matter whether you race, cruise, row, paddle, jet ski or motorboat - just show a little respect.

My old mum used to tell me that "manners doesn't cost anything" and sadly I think that is what is missing at the moment.

A little respect, manners or consideration from everybody that uses the water wouldn't go a miss. From racers, cruisers, mobo's, jet skiers, commercial fishermen etc - we can all do something to make all our lives a little easier and more often than not it only requires a small course change or in the case of commercial fishermen a larger flag on the dahn buoy!!!!!

Peter.
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

There is a whiff of snobbery or tribal conflict/loyalty in this thread. I came to the conclusion a while ago that there is a small percentage, I think about 5% but your perception may differ, of dickheads in this world. They manage to spread themselves evenly throughout society and are almost solely responsible for this kind of conflict - racers/cruisers; cyclists/motorists; sailors/mobos; SUV/hatchback; sailors/jetskis; French/English; young/old; etc., etc.

It is human nature to notice the actions of this small percentage and attribute their behaviour to the whole group. It is also human nature to want to belong to a grouping and then defend it against the actions of the minority. Thinking of the offenders as individuals requires a little thought and maturity but might keep the blood pressure under control.
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

Does indeed sound like a 700, which I sailed for a couple of years...

As Fireball pointed out, when the kite is up, you are at the mercy of the wind... if it gusts, you free off... no choice.... you either do it, or fall in... or if its a big enough gust, the boat frees off for you!

But regardless, if he saw a close quarters situation developing, he should have gybed.... (no small event in a 700 I can assure you!)
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

"A little respect, manners or consideration from everybody that uses the water wouldn't go a miss" At last, someone has hit the nail on the head. Oh and I cruise but am happy to pick brains of racers about getting that little extra out of a boat. Mike.
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

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Sometimes you cant escape the racers ....

oy.jpg


This is a sailtraining boat that got trapped with nowhere to go in the middle of a fleet of Laser SB3's in the Garmin Hamble Winter Series.

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Was that this weekend? Only reason for asking is we could not make it this Sunday, SB3 fleet, Hamble winter series...

Knowing how compact the SB3 courses are, are more over so relatively inshore, always makes us wonder why when someone comes bumbling through the course area. I know nobody owns any given patch of water, but am thinking time of year, relatively empty Solent an all that.

Happens more frequently than you would imagine, lone cruiser, motor boat, sail training vessel or whatever come bumbling along in their own world, with clearly no real appreciation of whats happening right in front of them! Then look totally perplexed why ‘all of a sudden’ they are surrounded by the fleet of SB3 or one of the other sports boat starts.

Makes you question if some folk have any clear understanding of depth of vision, closing hull speed, ‘in-hand good time and preparation’ to alter by only afew degrees with sufficient distance in-hand to not end up slap bang in the middle of these situations.

What was the sail training helm thinking of? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
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