A question on spinnaker set up

[wormanj]

I have not hoisted a spinny for some time now and can't remember how the running rig goes. Obviously outside of everything but sheets and guys???? If I remember correctly the active guy goes through the jaws of the pole and attaches to the sail. The guy normally has an extra shackle ring for securing the sheet to. Both being led aft. Is that right or is it the other way round, ie. Sheet through pole and attached to sail with guy attached the the extra shackle point on the sheet. Stupid question but one I would like to clarify

 

[lenseman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinnaker

 

[dt4134]

Two sheets & two guys are normal if you're going to dip the pole to gybe. Two lines are more normal if you're going to end for end the pole. If the pole has a bridle it means it was intended to be swapped end ofr end during a gybe.

There are likely to be blocks for the guys on the rail a bit forward of the cockpit. And blocks for the sheets on the quarters. On most, but not all boats, it is outside everything.

You should really have tweakers (a.k.a twinners) for the sheets.

The sheets attach to the spinnaker and the guys to the sheets (this is so you can remove the lazy guy in light airs).

The guy goes through the end of the pole.

Of course if you're just cruising and plan to drop the spinnaker instead of gybing, you just need one sheet & one guy.

 

[bbg]

Normally guy attaches to sheet, so in light air you can remove the extra weight of the lazy guy. Rmember to re-attach it before you gybe.
At the pole end, the guy goes into the jaws - preferably with a donut between the jaws and the guy shackle, so the jaws don't get forced over the shackle.
Whether you use sheets and guys, or just sheets, will depend on the size of the boat.
If you have any more specific questions, it would be useful to know more about the boat.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Rig Up The Lines Without The Spinnaker For A Dry Run Test

wormanj I would rig up the sheet and guy as explained on the previous posts but without the spinnaker; just connect the 4 lines together at the pole. View the run of the lines and check for fouling against stanchions, safety lines and life buoys for example. Pull the pole back and forward and verify for all positions of pole. You may then be able to fine tune the position of the guy block around the beam to optimise the lead to the winch / pole.

On my own boat for example (centre cockpit) the horseshoe life buoy was fouled, so we now remove that before hoisting.

It will help to eliminate a SNAFU. I had the spinnaker out on my own boat for the first time last weekend and it was great. A sloppy run turned into a comfortable and fast passage with no tears or stress.

Happy kite flying.

 

[Koeketiene]

I have not hoisted a spinny for some time now and can't remember how the running rig goes. Obviously outside of everything but sheets and guys???? If I remember correctly the active guy goes through the jaws of the pole and attaches to the sail. The guy normally has an extra shackle ring for securing the sheet to. Both being led aft. Is that right or is it the other way round, ie. Sheet through pole and attached to sail with guy attached the the extra shackle point on the sheet. Stupid question but one I would like to clarify

Click - good starting point

 

[Boo2]

If the pole has a bridle it means it was intended to be swapped end ofr end during a gybe.

Why is that ? Is it just to keep the up/downhaul lines from tangling the sheets/guys ?

There are likely to be blocks for the guys on the rail a bit forward of the cockpit. And blocks for the sheets on the quarters.

If you have single line sheet/guys where do the blocks go ? Forward of the cockpit, or on the quarters ?

You should really have tweakers (a.k.a twinners) for the sheets.

What are they ?

Thanks,

Boo2

 

[bbg]

Why is that ? Is it just to keep the up/downhaul lines from tangling the sheets/guys ?

If it has a bridle it means either end can be the outboard end. So you can do an end-for-end gybe. If there is only an uphaul and downhaul on one end (and typically a bayonet fitting at the mast), it means the only option is to do a dip-pole gybe. You CAN do a dip pole gybe on a pole with a bridle, but such a setup normally means it is for end-for-ending.

If you have single line sheet/guys where do the blocks go ? Forward of the cockpit, or on the quarters ?

What are they [tweakers]?

If you only use one line (sheets), they should be led to blocks on the quarters. But they should be led through tweakers, which are typically at the beamiest part of the boat. These consisit of a block (through which the sheet is led), attached to a line. The line is led down through another block on the toerail, sometimes with an integral cam cleat. If not integral cam cleat, the line is led back to a cam cleat on deck. When the sheet is acting as the guy, the line is pulled tight bringing the lead for the guy down to the toerail. On the leeward side the tweaker is released, letting the sheet (and block) float up, with the lead going straight back to the quarter.

The tweakers are also useful when gybing in heavy air, when you put both on to choke down and stabilize the kite. Or just when running deep in heavy wind, when you pull down the sheet tweaker for the same reason.

 

[Boo2]

If you only use one line (sheets), they should be led to blocks on the quarters. But they should be led through tweakers, which are typically at the beamiest part of the boat. These consisit of a block (through which the sheet is led), attached to a line. The line is led down through another block on the toerail, sometimes with an integral cam cleat. If not integral cam cleat, the line is led back to a cam cleat on deck. When the sheet is acting as the guy, the line is pulled tight bringing the lead for the guy down to the toerail. On the leeward side the tweaker is released, letting the sheet (and block) float up, with the lead going straight back to the quarter.

OK, but why do the guys need to be led down to deck level forward of the cockpit ? The spinnaker end of the guy is held in position by the end of the pole (in turn governed by the pole's up/downhaul), so what difference does the run of the guy to the cockpit make ?

Boo2

 

[gardenshed]

Sheets: Lead to the rear quarter of the boat
Guys: lead to the widest point on the boat (BMax)

If using separate sheets and guys, the guy goes through a block on the toe rail at Bmax and then inside the rails back to the winch (usually the primary winch). This gives the best leverage to pull back the pole when close reaching.
Aside: On narrower boats, an additional jockey pole is attached to the mast at 90deg to the centre line to push the guy further outboard to reduce the force needed to pull the pole back

For double sheets and guys, the shackle on the sheet usually has a larger ring where the rope is spliced onto the sheet and you attach the guy to this. This allows you to remove the guy in lighter airs to allow the clew of the kite to fly better

Bridle: A line that goes from one end of the pole to the other, usually with a ring in the middle that the uphaul or downhaul attaches to. Most common where the pole has jaws at both ends and this allows the pole to be end for ended and reduces the chance of it accidentally breaking due to a bending force caused by the up or down haul being attached at the middle.

If single sheets, the sheet is usually led through a bock that is attched to a line led through a second block secured at BMax. (the tweeter block). The windward one is pulled down and the leeward one released so that you get the benefit of the two sheeting lead positions without having to move the sheet/guy.

Further complication: coming from the rear quarter, the sheet will be crossing the middle of the cockpit. Often, boats rig an additional block on the toerail at the front edge of the cockpit and lead the sheet forward from the rear quarter, inside the guardrails and through this block so that when either pulled by hand or led to the winch, there doesn't obstruct the helmsman or the main sheet.

Uphauls and down hauls. Best is attached to the very end of the pole, as high as practical on the mast and as far forward as possible on the foredeck.

'ope this 'elps

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Boo2 think about the position of the spinnaker pole at its limits, right back near the shrouds or right forward just off the forestay. As the beam is the widest part of the boat it allows the guy to lead to the pole with sufficient offset to pull back the pole when its right forward. If it was aft the lead might not be at a sufficient angle to move the pole out and back. More importantly the lead from the aft quarter would ensure that the guy would rub hard against the shrouds when the pole was forward. In a two sheet system you have to accept this.

A pole will always want to lift skywards if the down haul is released. In a blow this force can be significant and you can see the pole bend slightly. The guy at the beam provides some assistance to the pole down haul to help pull down the pole.

As the loads on the pole can be large the guy is led onto the primary sheet winch. This winch is set on boats to have the lead from forward, sometimes through a turning block. So leading from the beam replicates the correct lead angle to the winch. The spinnaker sheet can be set on dedicated winches aft of the primary sheet winch, which are normally smaller in size to the primary sheet winch, if such an arrangement is available.