A question for sailing cat experts/fans please

Robin
I am sorry but if you want decent sailing and flat..... your way is Out as in Outremer

There is a very nice 40 over in north Holland. Though it may not be for sale!!!
 
geem said:
Weight is a killer to performance on the Prout Snowgoose. They are simple construction of polyester resin and glass with substantial layup. No effort was made to build them light which is likely why there are still so many around. The hull is strong but heavy. We kept ours as light as possible. That is the only way you can squeeze performance from them. We never met any Prout Snowgoose owner that kept them as light as us. Most we came across sailed poorly particularly the twin engine version. The sterns of the Prouts have very little volume so weight in the ends is not a great idea. We could notice the performance difference between full fuel tanks and water tanks when near empty. We saved about 250kg by removing all loose ply under bunks, replacing the table, replacing doors with foam core composite. We only ever sailed with one water tank full when going any distance. Crossing the Atlantic we used a tiny watermaker and made 25 litres per day but kept one water tank full as an emergency back up. If you do all this thry will sail quite well but it is at a price of having minimal kit onboard. Ignore this and you are a motorsailer. A good measure of how loaded you are is if the nacelle is in the water at anchor you are too heavy. Ours was not. Most Prouts we see have the nacelle antifouled as it was permanently in the water
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Ok I see where you are coming from now...as you were relating directly to the snowgoose... I thought you were trying to say any cat with saildrives is a motor sailer....which ours certainly isn't..we are more than happy with the way she sails, yes its probably overloaded as we are liveaboards and SWMBO likes her comforts, but we both have the philosophy that we don't mind getting to a destination a little more slowly and having more comfort when we arrive, as like others the amount of time actually sailing as compared to being in harbour is miniscule.
 
Garry & June 'Friendship' said:
Ok I see where you are coming from now...as you were relating directly to the snowgoose... I thought you were trying to say any cat with saildrives is a motor sailer....which ours certainly isn't..we are more than happy with the way she sails, yes its probably overloaded as we are liveaboards and SWMBO likes her comforts, but we both have the philosophy that we don't mind getting to a destination a little more slowly and having more comfort when we arrive, as like others the amount of time actually sailing as compared to being in harbour is miniscule.
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I agree with regard to comfort. For that reason our current boat is a 44ft monohull. We sail the same average passage times as we did on our light Snowgoose 37. The difference is when full loaded we are 19 tons. We carry 800 litres of water, 450 fuel, a 9 ft rib with 15 hp engine, a kayak, paddle board and two small dogs. We have cavenous locker space for everything. We have a diesel generator and large watermaker. we could never have had these things on our Prout without being overloaded. We are still floating above our marks
 
fergie_mac66 said:
Well there is Going to be a difference between 37 and 44 foot . Quasar or
50 foot prout ? http://www.sailmagazine.com/boat-reviews/prout-50sw/
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Not really. Average passage times are the same. Our dilemma was what cat would you move up to from the Prout 37 to improve accomodation and maintain some performance. Nothing looked good to us other than Outremer. I am not a fan of the modern floating condominiums that are produced for the charter market. If you enjoy sailing you need something that performs well. The cost of an Outremer was prohibitive. On a value for money basis it just didnt make sense for us. We went back to mono and have no regrets. We had 16 years with cats and they worked for us during that period. We are now cruising in the Caribbean and will be heading further afield soon. The current boat ticks all the boxes for our current cruising needs
 
It is also worth remembering that most liveaboards actually sail for less than 10% of the time, some less than 5% of the time - meaning that you spend about 90% of your time on board moored or anchored. Obviously longer ocean passages can change these figures but for European / Med waters they are pretty normal.
I am not saying that sailing performance / ability should be ignored, from a safety point of view and personal satisfaction decent sailing performance can be very important.
Hence it is important to make your boat choice on the right criteria - is a boat that can sail 1knt faster better than a boat with more deck / saloon space, certainly most ladies will prefer the comfort to the speed!!
A good friend of ours made all sorts of checklists when deciding on which boat was best for long term liveaboard, his final choice is irrelevant here, however he completely overlooked the amount of time that would be spent "living outside", meaning he ended up with a boat that had a great cockpit for passage making but not so good for relaxing and socialising in the sun.
Just make sure you grade your priorities accordingly.
 
crisjones said:
It is also worth remembering that most liveaboards actually sail for less than 10% of the time, some less than 5% of the time - meaning that you spend about 90% of your time on board moored or anchored. Obviously longer ocean passages can change these figures but for European / Med waters they are pretty normal.
I am not saying that sailing performance / ability should be ignored, from a safety point of view and personal satisfaction decent sailing performance can be very important.
Hence it is important to make your boat choice on the right criteria - is a boat that can sail 1knt faster better than a boat with more deck / saloon space, certainly most ladies will prefer the comfort to the speed!!
A good friend of ours made all sorts of checklists when deciding on which boat was best for long term liveaboard, his final choice is irrelevant here, however he completely overlooked the amount of time that would be spent "living outside", meaning he ended up with a boat that had a great cockpit for passage making but not so good for relaxing and socialising in the sun.
Just make sure you grade your priorities accordingly.
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I agree with your comments but had to chuckle a little at your last point. My personal view is that current monohull design of cockpits is woeful. Modern AWBs seem to prioritise cockpits to be as large and open as possible. I suspect this is because the rest of the deck is useless for anything as there is not a flat section on it of any area. So, on the AWB your cockpit has do perform many functions. Beating to weather in said cockpit provides minimal protection because the sprayhood only really covers the mainhatch. It might deflect the odd bit of spray if you tuck yourself up under it, but if there are four of you in the cockpit at least two of you are going to get wet.
Sitting in said cockpit for dinner in the evening whilst at anchor with a little breeze also doesnt work. Thr boat swings around and the people at the back get chilly even though its 26 degC.
A good cockpit IMHO should be able to deal with sailing to windward and provide comfort for the occupants ( or even sailing with wind on the beam and spray flying) and provide a great space to live outside, entertain and watch the world.
Our cockpit is the second variety and we wouldnt change it for the world. Brilliant design
 
OUr last UK monohull was a Jeanneau Sun Legende 41. BrIlliant boat, fast and very closewinded. We sailed with sprayhood folded down up to F6 going upwind without getting spray back to the cockpit. The cockpit was very comfy, had a fold down teak table on the pedestal that was useable at anchor or underway. We had a Bimini top that converted to a full enclosure if required and we ate outside in all weathers from choice. Even in the UK the shade from the bimini was appreciated especially combined with through flow air via the zip opening sprayhood windows
 
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Scillypete said:
And we are back to the main downside of a mono which is that the G&T won't stay put when sailing, especially to windward, which of course it will on a Catamaran
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our teapot fell off the table once.......
There is sailing and there is sailing. In the current weather we are having here in Guadeloupe I dont think you would be drinking much G&T on route. Been blowing up to 35 kts today and yeterday and the day before. A nice Alpha 42 cat left yesterday to head to Antigua. They were back in an hour. Too rough. Four blokes and a lass onboard so it wasnt a short handed crew.
 
geem said:
our teapot fell off the table once.......
There is sailing and there is sailing. In the current weather we are having here in Guadeloupe I dont think you would be drinking much G&T on route. Been blowing up to 35 kts today and yeterday and the day before. A nice Alpha 42 cat left yesterday to head to Antigua. They were back in an hour. Too rough. Four blokes and a lass onboard so it wasnt a short handed crew.
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We used to revel in sailing in strong winds, upwind in a Gale to restock the wine, chees and pates. I am advised now by she who rules, that we don't Do that no more, no more, no indeed! Then again we used to revel in getting our boats moving in light winds too, now that, I'm advised, will be permitted as will starting the engine. I am also advised that there is nothing wrong with in-mast nor genoa alone rigs:ambivalence:.
 
Robin said:
We used to revel in sailing in strong winds, upwind in a Gale to restock the wine, chees and pates. I am advised now by she who rules, that we don't Do that no more, no more, no indeed! Then again we used to revel in getting our boats moving in light winds too, now that, I'm advised, will be permitted as will starting the engine. I am also advised that there is nothing wrong with in-mast nor genoa alone rigs:ambivalence:.
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You are gradually moving to the reality most oldies inhabit! All this talk about batting across the Atlantic in stripped out cats and swinging at anchor miles from the shore so you need a RIB to get there is irrelevant for pottering around our waters, resting awhile in quiet French harbours of anchorages. Moving from one to another when weather right, not rushing to get there etc etc. A nice Catalac would do, as would a Nauticat 331 if you only want one hull and lots of space down below. Just as examples there are many more to choose from. Its a home that moves from place to place when you want, not a machine for sailing pleasure.
 
Tranona said:
You are gradually moving to the reality most oldies inhabit! All this talk about batting across the Atlantic in stripped out cats and swinging at anchor miles from the shore so you need a RIB to get there is irrelevant for pottering around our waters, resting awhile in quiet French harbours of anchorages. Moving from one to another when weather right, not rushing to get there etc etc. A nice Catalac would do, as would a Nauticat 331 if you only want one hull and lots of space down below. Just as examples there are many more to choose from. Its a home that moves from place to place when you want, not a machine for sailing pleasure.
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A small RIB helps with wobbly legs mind as long as the outboard is light enough to allow lifting/dragging it up a beach. Then again my mind imagines some places where a cat can be parked to Allow walking ashore. Nauticats were a fleeting thought until I remember the affordable used ones all have teak deck bankrupters fitted. If sitting inside driving from a swish upholstered chair it might as well be a proper mobo with an island bed too;).
 
You have a choice of inside or outside steering on a 331 and individual layouts vary, but most have a decent double in the aft cabin. Not ideal, but the teak decks are a cut above the usual in quality of teak and life expectancy. However they go for the thick end of £100k!
 
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