A minor but sobering event

[Sadlermike]

I was part way through breakfast this morning when I heard a cry for help. Resisting the temptation to have another cup of tea before looking for the source, I went on deck with amazing alacrity for the time of day to find that a professional fisherman had fallen between the pontoon and his 35ft boat. Two of us could not lift him onto the pontoon although it was relatively easy when a third man arrived. Two of us were able to lift him under his arms while the third was able to lift a leg. The victim had stepped from the pontoon to his boat nearly every day for thirty years without mishap.

 

[bilbobaggins]

It's more often than otherwise a little thing that catches us out, momentarily, with huge consequences. Always worth a 'heads up'.

And I'm betting he's pleased at least one of you were 'sober'.....

 

[SimbaDog]

Well done
Yes it's amazing how heavy people are, I think most people underestimate the effort needed to lift someone, I struggled a few weks ago when my labrador fell off the pontoon

 

[nortonmotors]

Shoulders out

Falling in is the easy bit ; getting out unharmed is much more difficult. My sister-in-law, in her 70's, missed the pontoon at Hartlepool and fell into the lock. A hero grabbed both arms and jerked her backwards over the edge of the pontoon. She never sailed again, too painfull.
Now I hear my occasional crew in his mid 80's fell into the marina at Kiel and another hero, a Kiwi this time, grabbed one arm and hauled him out. Dislocated shoulder, hospital, flight home...........
Moral : be very wary of well-meaning offers, and don't be in a hurry to get out.

 

[puddock]

Falling in is the easy bit ; getting out unharmed is much more difficult. My sister-in-law, in her 70's, missed the pontoon at Hartlepool and fell into the lock. A hero grabbed both arms and jerked her backwards over the edge of the pontoon. She never sailed again, too painfull.
Now I hear my occasional crew in his mid 80's fell into the marina at Kiel and another hero, a Kiwi this time, grabbed one arm and hauled him out. Dislocated shoulder, hospital, flight home...........
Moral : be very wary of well-meaning offers, and don't be in a hurry to get out.

So, you heard it here...
If you happen to see someone in their 70's or 80's in the water don't help them (unless you happen to have a collapsible chairlift or similar item handy). Just leave them in the water, they'll be fine ????
Conversely, if you are in your 70's or 80's and happen to be hanging onto a marina somewhere, please be advised to decline any offers of help until valid proof of Lifting Certification has been shown.
Also (if you happen to be in your 70's or 80's) DO NOT accept this mans invitation to go sailing - he is bad luck !!!

PS - Presuming they are still at this stage, floating upright, where else is there to grab them? The neck???

 

[Searush]

A few thoughts - for comment/ dsicussion?

If possible,I think the best idea is to ASSIST their attempts to climb out themselves rather than try hoicking them out bodily.

Perhaps grip clothing under the arm (acts like a sling) plus side of trousers (to spread load). They will be lying sideways in the water by then & will not need lifting far, plus there are no joints to force or bend the wrong way. Finally, once back on the pontoon they will be easy to put in the recovery position if appropriate.

Lifter will be leaning awkwardly & will not be able to lift a great weight safely, you cannot use your legs for the lift & your back will be at risk of disk damage or similar.

 

[Stemar]

Having been involved in a similar incident in the past, I would suggest that the best thing for a reasonably OK person is to help them to the nearest safety ladder and let them climb out on their own - or with a bit of assistance. I wouldn't try and haul them out unless they were in difficulties over and above just not being able to get out.

May I also suggest that from about November to April, it's probably a 999 call if they're in the water for more than a minute or two as hypothermia sets in pretty quickly - especially with older folk and those with a few jars inside them.

 

[Seafort]

Secondary drowning.

Hopefully we have not yet progressed to the point of sueing each other for cracking a rib whilst performing CPR but...

From a (ce) skippers point of view I have been TOLD that every MOB situation requires a mayday mssg and a trip to the nearest medical facility due to the risk of secondary drowning.

If it is not too much of a "drift", what are the panels thoughts?

Dave.

 

[stafs]

I think some are forgeting the effects of adrenaline, yes the advice is great and most probably correct but hey half way through breakfast. Me thinks the first thing on most peoples minds would be to get the cassualty out asap.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

A small tip for all: Familiarise yourself with the facilities to find out where the nearest ladder out of the water is located, eg on the end of pontoon? near a particular finger ? none at all?

 

[stafs]

Hopefully we have not yet progressed to the point of sueing each other for cracking a rib whilst performing CPR but...

From a (ce) skippers point of view I have been TOLD that every MOB situation requires a mayday mssg and a trip to the nearest medical facility due to the risk of secondary drowning.

If it is not too much of a "drift", what are the panels thoughts?

Dave.

Aggree with the mayday as every second may count and it is easy to cancell the call once all are safe and well. Not sure on the medical facility I think all situations require there own risk assessment.

 

[JohnTH]

Get the "victim" out asap. It is the is cold that will get them as much as anything else.

Very often the "victim" is not able to help and are just a dead (hope not !) weight. Each situation will be different.

Practice MOB drills on a regular basis is the best idea oh, if you do have to go in to help, feet first to minimise thermal shock to the ticker !

73s de
Johnth

 

[RivalRedwing]

When a chap fell into our marina (pulling on a line that wasn't properly cleated off - pure comedy to watch) the easiest route to helping him out was to put a bowline into the end of a mooring line which he then used as a step to lift himself up

 

[Ifraser]

you beat me too it...

When a chap fell into our marina (pulling on a line that wasn't properly cleated off - pure comedy to watch) the easiest route to helping him out was to put a bowline into the end of a mooring line which he then used as a step to lift himself up

I was about to say whether it be mob from a boat or pontoon putting a loop of rope into the the water from cleats can help a casualty step out... if they cannot help themselves then looping the rope under their arms to use as a strop can put you in a better position for lifting rather than leaning down to the water. Not many people actually practice recovery from the water but it is important to do so because it is rarely easy.. cheers Iain

 

[JohnTH]

That reminds me, rope is good under the victims arms however webbing is ideal.

Have a look at the lifeboat next time you pass. They have what looks like a cran rigged midships for this puropse.

Remember people, practice your MOB drills !

72s de
Johnth

 

[johnalison]

Hopefully we have not yet progressed to the point of sueing each other for cracking a rib whilst performing CPR but...

From a (ce) skippers point of view I have been TOLD that every MOB situation requires a mayday mssg and a trip to the nearest medical facility due to the risk of secondary drowning.

If it is not too much of a "drift", what are the panels thoughts?

Dave.

I've not come across the expression "secondary drowning" and it sounds a bit contrived.

What they are saying is that a relatively small quantity of water in the lungs can do harm. This only applies to fresh water, when the water can be absorbed rapidly by the lung membrane and cause haemolysis of the blood, thus releasing haemoglobin outside cell which can cause kidney failure and death. Sea water is hypertonic and does not cause this.

Another potential cause of problems is the inhalation of oils (such as fuel on the water) which cause pneumonitis and can be fatal.

Moral: only fall overboard at sea.

 

[pmagowan]

Secondary drowning is well known in medical circles and describes the process of pulmonary oedema (fluid leaking out of blood into lungs) after the initial insult from inhalation of either fresh or sea water. Anyone who has inhaled water as part of an accident should be treated cautiously and serious consideration given to transfer to hospital

 

[mikehibb]

Secondary drowning is well known in medical circles and describes the process of pulmonary oedema (fluid leaking out of blood into lungs) after the initial insult from inhalation of either fresh or sea water. Anyone who has inhaled water as part of an accident should be treated cautiously and serious consideration given to transfer to hospital

Yep was taught that too by my dive instructor. He added that all cases at his dive school would be referred immediatelty to onshore doctor. They did have a paramedic station located very conveniently 150m from the Dive school HQ. But he also had laminated map with phone numbers of all medical facilities local to all of our dive sites on the boat (as well as VHF and all his other safety kit)
And this was in a dive school in Turkey holiday resort, so goes to show some are more professional than some of what we often hear.

 

[Bilgediver]

I was part way through breakfast this morning when I heard a cry for help. Resisting the temptation to have another cup of tea before looking for the source, I went on deck with amazing alacrity for the time of day to find that a professional fisherman had fallen between the pontoon and his 35ft boat. Two of us could not lift him onto the pontoon although it was relatively easy when a third man arrived. Two of us were able to lift him under his arms while the third was able to lift a leg. The victim had stepped from the pontoon to his boat nearly every day for thirty years without mishap.

Some years ago a well built lady fell into the water alongside the bow of her yacht and dislocated a shoulder as she fell.

When I arrived on the scene the husband and brother in law were wondering what to do as there was no way they could hold her near the one arm.

I got down on hands and knees and amused her by asking what she was wearing! As I suspected it was jeans. I slipped a hand down the small of her back till I could grab a handfull of jeans and belt then warned her to take a deep breath and hold as she was possibly going under once or twice.

I think she popped out onto the pontoon beside me after the third or fourth plunge. It was extremely easy and done with one hand.

The husband thought is was white man,s magic. I had never done it before but been told it was one way of getting folk out of the water. Her arm was untouched throughout and she was taken off to hospital to have it put back in place. The only casualty was a very expensive silver buckle on the belt!

 

[Poignard]

A small tip for all: Familiarise yourself with the facilities to find out where the nearest ladder out of the water is located, eg on the end of pontoon? near a particular finger ? none at all?

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Another small tip: make sure the boat can't move in and crush the person in the water. I saw it happen in Hong Kong when a marine policeman fell between two police tugs and his leg was injured when the two boats came together just as he was being lifted out.